SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is another thing we've talked about on the podcast multiple times before. Production value and like some of the things on the, you know, some of the other elements that go into the making of a film beyond just the performances, the story, and so forth. Costume design. Costume design. Right. But when you learn more about what went into the making of this film, the use of practical effects, it's really quite astounding and a rarity these days. Welcome to the O Brother Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Smith. Alongside me as always, my brother from the same mother, Mike Smith. Halloween Fest rolling on. Halloween Fest. Dan's out in the woods giving us a well, you know, it's weird. It does, it's fitting, I think, because it it's like I'm in a tomb or something. But again, the Yo Brother Studios here, uh Brothers Studios South, I should say, uh still under construction, but at least you can see a couple of things behind me now. I got the Michael Myers Funko pop and the Jaws wine bottle and whatnot and so forth. There's an as a piece of artwork behind me that if you recall, a friend of the podcast, Alex, had painted that based on our logo. And I've got some uh let's see, Mike, what do I got? Let me back out of the way for a minute. I've got uh my Camp Crystal Lake, you can't see it. And I've got a couple of signs, Halloween, Friday 13th. I haven't hung anything up yet, because as I've said to you, I'm still undecided on what I want to have on the walls after I've just had them painted. So I did want at least a surface behind me, a wall color that was non-reflective, and I think I achieved that absolutely by a mile.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

It reminds me, what's that uh horror film that was made in Orlando that was out in the woods? The Blair Witch Project. Yeah. And you're in the Blair.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

It is kind of the Blair Witch project. I like it, but I'll have I don't have a uh real good front lighting situation yet. So again, it's still under construction, but we're making progress. I think by this time, next Halloween fest, I might have so you've really come through because in your studio there, the O'Brother North Studios, you've got again, not gonna give away anything, but Mike might be perhaps give dropping some clues as to where we're headed this Halloween fest. Because what would Halloween fest be, Mike, without there is no Halloween fest without Halloween, let's just say that. So but now here's one, Mike. Bram Stoker's Dracula 1992. You always I start to riff and then you immediately come out. Well, I just wanted to hold it up. I know, again, it's an audio podcast. Don't forget that. I know, but people are watching it too. Are they though? Yeah. Not according to the analytics. But yeah, that's another conversation for another day. No, November 13th, 1992. Actually, hold that up again. So that's the 4K Ultra edition. This is the Digi Book.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

The Digi Book. I put the 4K in there, which I found out last night has no extras. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Well, hold that, hold that up one more time because it's funny. For those that are listening and not watching, this image is one of the creepiest scenes in the entire film. He's you've got uh Sir Gary Oldman as Dracula, Vlad, the impaler, what have you, and he's licking this uh shaving blade uh with the getting licking the blood off of it. It's a super creepy uh scene. But now I couldn't tell you, Mike, last time I saw this film. I know I saw it in the theater when it came out back in '92, yeah. And you know, we've this is another thing we've talked about on the podcast multiple times before. Production value and like some of the things on the, you know, some of the other elements that go into the making of a film beyond just the performances, the story, and so forth. Costume design. Costume design, right? And you know, when you look at the ratings for this film that we always quote on the podcast, and my own take, I'll just say up front, uh, and I've always felt this way, it's not like a super fantastic film. It's not an A film, it's like B minus, probably for me. But all of the things that he just mentioned, the production design, the costume design, when you when you learn more about what went into the making of this film, the use of practical effects, it's really quite outstanding astounding and a rarity these days, right? In the age of filmmaking and the volume and advancements in CGI and so forth in AI, it's hard to find these films anymore. And this is a this kind of stands out to me in that way.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

I had no idea we would be this locked in. I thought you were gonna love this and I was gonna hate it. And I I I will say this this is the movie I have the most positive things to say about. Everything I can say about it is good, yet the movie falls short, leaving me bored. And and this is my third time watching it, and I remember, and it's funny because Coppola, Francis Ford Coppola, who directed this, he was the producer on uh Frankenstein with De Niro. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, yeah. Right. And I had read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein before I saw that. I tried to read Bram Stoker's Dra How did uh Sir Gary say it Dracula?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, Dracula Yeah, sometimes leaving off the A.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

I couldn't get 10 pages without having to read it again. And I would be like, you know how you do that once in a while? You read something, you're like, Did I just read that? I do it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

That's why I have no comprehension. My comprehension is is is quite poor, and it's tough these days with the internet and social media and stuff like that. But yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. I it is lacking something. The and honestly, Mike, you know, there's been much said about Can O'Reilly's accent in the film. But honestly, for me, that didn't bother me. It was fine. It was really overblown, I think, when you see it. Winona got hit too. Yeah, but not nearly as much as as Keanu did. But yeah, he was young, kind of up and coming star.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

They all give you the list when we're at the end.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, give people this list. I know you got more. Yeah. There was one. Now, the digital copy that I have was chock full of extras.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

And I had that and I've seen them before, but they're not on the fourteenth.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

The only thing it doesn't have is a commentary, but there's so many featurettes and uh some really in-depth behind-the-scenes stuff that you don't really miss it.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

If you had the DVD, the DVD actually has a commentary. Why it didn't get ported had to be a rights issue.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, it's some of the some of the behind-the-scenes stuff they have is quite phenomenal. Like there's a whole meeting two, three weeks prior to the start of of production where the whole cast and crew get together in Napa Valley at Coppola's Place to do some bonding and you know, this sort of thing. And um they have footage of that, and it's it's pretty fascinating to watch.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

But they read the novel. Took two days.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yes, and and and I'm glad you brought that up because as you were talking about reading Front Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, and well, you know, I didn't realize Francis's connection to the story as a young adult, as a camp counselor. He used to read that book to the the kids, uh, you know, to as they were going to bed or whatever. And so it was something that I guess he always pined to do. But what's even more interesting about it, I found, is Winona Ryder, who of course stars in this as well, another at the time very young and up and coming, she, as we know, of course, because we did a whole episode devoted to Godfather three, right? Yeah. Which Coppola, of course, directed. And this film came just after Godfather III.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

And they weren't talking for a while, and then they came together.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

And and it's because she approached him with this script, this screenplay for for Dracula. And I think it sounds like it was a bit of an olive branch that she was, you know, reaching out to him because she she by all accounts, in her own words, adores him.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

And you know, and you know, forget all the talk that if she was in Godfather III, it would have done better, blah, blah. Sophia was just fine. Just fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

That was not the issue. Now, would I like to see a cut with Winona in it? Sure, I would. Sure. Absolutely. We've always been the ones to come out and say that um that was that was a lot of unnecessary hate on Sophia and the film.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

You also had um Bridget Fonda right there. You could have plugged her in easily, had her dye her hair, and she would have been perfect.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

But again, that wasn't the issue with the No, it wasn't the issue, but it's it's just interesting how they come back together over this over this script.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

And then through the throughout the production, there was a lot of turmoil because Winona and Sir Gary were not getting along. This was his first big film.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, and and and also, you know, and of course you know this, but one of the reasons when he read the script, and what's wild is he was on the set of JFK, and he was in his trailer reading the screenplay. And when he read the line, I've crossed oceans of time to find you, I gotta do this film. That was kind of it for him. Not that he was always like, I've got to be Dracula, I've got to have that role, and but that just that resonated with him and and that you know solidified.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

It's weird how one line would make you say, I'm gonna do it, especially film like this. Now, we have something recent to compare it to, which is Frankenstein by Guillermo del Toro, which I did not find boring at all. Yeah, that's true. Uh, you know, it it's what do you think that is? Do you can you know anything? It's it's do it, you know. I I think, and and I can't say this definitively because I didn't read the novel, but I think there's a lot of sub-stories in the novel, and I think he attempted to portray all those sub-stories, like with Carrie Yules and even Keanu and Winona and A Former Life, and and I think it just there was too many mouths to feed, and you wound up with kind of a boring film. It reminds me of werewolf, we just took a first look at, and I get the same vibe from that film.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

And I worry about that that will be the outcome when that gets released. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

And Dan, what was the number one over the weekend, do you know? No, I'm Oh Mommy or Oh O Mama or something. Oh Mommy with uh Jessica Chastain did 50 million.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

And she's getting blasted uh for that? For that. You know, as far as far as like her performance, I guess, or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

But and the other thing, you know, before we move on, is how this made 215 million worldwide. Only the second film of Coppola, Godfather being the first, to make over 200 million. Shocking.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

So somebody liked it. Shocking when you look at his resume. Although he's he's not in the Kubrick, you know, uh, place in film history in terms of uh look, he's got a much longer resume, but you know, there's there's that handful of standout films. And this was one until we decided on doing this this Halloween fest, I'll be honest, I sort of forgot that it was Francis that that directed it. So I was even more intrigued to dive into it, knowing that he was behind the camera. Now, let me just run down the kind of principal cast here and feel free to comment on any of these as you want. Of course, Sir Gary Oldman, I have to pay him his due with the Sur because he's been knighted not all that long ago. Um, Winona Ryder, of course, who just recently watched this, I think, uh, on Halloween, no less. Oh, wow. And had a lot of good uh things to say as she reflected back on the making of it. Uh, you know, I think that water under the bridge in terms of the experience, you know, and and um you can see an interview with her on uh uh Happy Sad Confused with Josh Horowitz, which is a very popular podcast. Um Sir Anthony Hopkins, Mike, our buddy Sir Anthony. Keanu Reeves, again, had no problem with Keanu in the film.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Although he openly says he just was so burnt out when he did the movie he didn't have enough to give. And Coppola openly says that he was kind of pushed on him because the studio wanted a young, good-looking hip actor, and that was him. He was foisted, as they say.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah, it's a good curbier enthusiasm. The great Richard E. Grant plays Dr. Seward, uh, Carrie Yule, as you mentioned, Sadie Frost plays one of the significant characters named Lucy, Tom Waits, the musician Tom Waits plays Renfield, which is kind of wild. And then, you know, the great Monica Bellucci, the great Italian actress, beautiful, who also is has notoriety as uh the oldest woman to play a Bond girl, a Bond woman in a Bond film. She was 50 at the time that she was I didn't know she was 50. Wow. At the time that she was in Bond, yeah. So so those are the ones that I I I noted down. Now, plot IMDB synopsis. I think, Mike, Francis's own quote sums it up even better and more succinctly, which is he describes it as a dark, erotic nightmare. And I think that's a really good way to actually sum it up.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

You know, you can get into the whole what also what I enjoy about this is this idea and what James Hart, the screenwriter, who also did actually marry Shelley's Frankenstein, so they were collaborators on that as well, is he took, you know, some things that were rooted in actual history with this uh was he was a warrior, a uh uh general, whatever he was, of Vlad, forget the specific name, you know, he comes to be known as Vlad the Impaler because he used to impale the victims on the spikes and whatnot. Um, but he they take some of that actual history and then merge it with Bram Stoker's story of Dracula, which I thought was pretty interesting. And this, to be clear, Mike, is not your father's Dracula. This isn't the I font to sock your blood. You know, right. This is not that Dracula. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Well, I wanted to say I'm shocked how many Nosferatu movies there are, and that this, you know, really was kind of a homage to the 1922, which was the original. And then the other one, Dan, that we I think we did this on Halloween Fest was Renfield. We did a first look.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

We didn't do the film.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Did you watch the film?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

I don't I own it and I have it. Yeah, I'll watch it this season for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, because I'm you know, especially after seeing this and Tom Waits's performances, Renfield.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Uh Tom Waits was in another Coppola movie. I can't remember what it was. Okay. Okay. I forget.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Now the budget, the but okay, so the budget is estimated somewhere around 40 million. You can do all the math and adjust for inflation, all those sorts of things. But when you listen to Francis talk about the making of the film, much of that I think was put into the costume design here of the film. Fantastic. Echo Ishioka, Mike. So talk about, I mean, as he says himself, as Francis says himself, the costumes are the set. So kind of just talk about it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

You know, if you look at and and by the way, she won an Oscar for this.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

And the costumes, if you look at them, she's Japanese. And you can see a lot of kind of kabuki theater in in in you know, I don't I don't know if you've ever seen kabuki theater before. Well, not in person, but yeah, I know what it is, yeah. But uh you know, I've actually seen it in Japan. And the the costumes are kind of a character on stage. And I think he caught that w or she caught that with this film.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, he he gave her a lot of freedom. And it was amazing. Honestly, one pass through the film, and it just doesn't do it justice what she brings to the film. I mean, you know, the way that she would be inspired by different, like a lizard or a snake, and create this design and a dress, and that it would sort of be imbued with that sort of likeness and so forth. It's it's really quite spectacular and uh definitely Oscar-worthy. There's no question about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

No question. And then add that to the makeup. The makeup's stunning in this. Gary Oldman as Dracula is just recognizable.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

It's incredible. Yeah, I don't know how long he had to sit in a chair for this one.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, it was like three, four hours.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Because there's various iterations, if you will, of Dracula. I mean, he's almost like plays like nine different Draculas in this. You know, you see him as a young man, you see him as a very old man. There's the John Lennon Dracula, which I love. Yeah. Now, uh Gustav Klimpt, I don't know if you're familiar with his paintings, but uh, I have there's a few in the house here, actually. Oh, wow. We're also an inspiration to a degree of the look, and you know, when when they were uh working on the costume design in particular. And I like how Aiko talks about this sort of, you know, she was approaching it as this sort of hybrid, this mashup of like East meets West, you know, the Eastern culture and the Western culture. And it's really spectacular. Now, when you watching this again, I don't know if you can remember back to when you first saw it, but can you talk about the comparisons between like a Citizen Kane, arguably the greatest film ever made, by a very, very young Orson Wells at the time?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Well, I I think the difference, I mean, or this the similarity is the fact that it's practical. You know, like at one point he needed to get a shot. The only way to do it was dig up the floor and put the camera down in a hole. Orson, yeah. Yeah, Orson Wells to get the shot. And I think you see some of that in this. Because again, he didn't want to use special effects.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

He didn't, and it's so much so that he ended up firing the V of X team because they just were not on board with his vision and what he believed could be done practically. And so guess what? I'm gonna bring in my almost pre-pubescent son Roman Coppola, right, who I mean, Mike, what was he, 20 something?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah, he was very young. And I had forgot he worked on this until Amazing. You know, going through my notes.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And it was, they would do, you know, I love that it's a it's everything done in camera, basically, as they say, right? There's no CGI, there's no relying on that sort of thing. It's just this sort of illusion, the magical illusions, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And it was weird. Like bodies seemed to merge and come out of, you know, another body. It was just uh, you know, so hard to figure out how did they do that?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Well, see, on some of the making the the featurettes, okay. Yeah, there's a sequence of very, you know, uh graphic, there's some nudity, sexual, very sexual, erotic, and so forth. And They there's a one where, like you said, there's like a almost like Siamese twins. This one woman is coming out of like the torso of another woman, and it's like this contortionist kind of look. And while they show all of these dancers sort of dancing intermingled in that way and rehearsing and trying to figure it out basically what it would end up looking like, and it's quite fascinating. Also, there's there's you know, use of force perspective and you know it it's pretty amazing. You really have to go and you can see these these featurettes on YouTube, you can look them up if you don't have the film.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, and if you remember Disney, you you know, Disney Hollywood Studios that it used to be known, um, had a whole force perspective of like New York. And if you took the tram ride, which doesn't exist anymore, you could um it looks like you you're looking down the street of you know Madison Avenue, but it's really just a flat surface.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Well, in this was shot almost entirely on the MGM lot, right? And uh it's I don't know, there's one sequence, for example, where Dracula is driving a coach and you know he's got the horse-drawn carriage.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

That's when he's got the John Lennon glasses. Well, not in this particular case.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

This is he's actually you don't even know it's him, and so he picks up Jonathan Harker, which is of course Keanu Reeves' character, who has is basically subbing in for Renfield, who has gone mental like in an institution. And so Harker travels to Transylvania to Dracula's castle. Well, it's actually Dracula on the stagecoach, if you will, you know, driving him to the castle, and he's waiting to be picked up. Okay, so Keanu is standing there on the side of the road, waiting to be picked up, and the carriage pulls up, and the driver is sitting there and reaches their arm out, and all of a sudden their arm looks like it becomes like 30 feet long. Right, because the person doesn't leave the carriage, but their arm reaches out to Keanu, grabs him by the shoulder, and puts him into the Right. It's a weird illusion.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

And the way he moves, it's like he's floating. Well, then you know what they did?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

You can't tell in the shot, and I went back and looked at it numerous times, who whoever it was, whether it was Oldman or a stand-in or something, they're actually sitting on a crane device. And so when he goes to reach the arm out, they're just moving the actor towards Keanu. Oh and again, it creates this incredible optical illusion. So it's weird. There's numerous examples of that throughout the film, and again, I just had much more appreciation for it. So you've got, you know, the the practical sets, uh, the costumes we've talked about. Gary Oldman, who went so far as to train his voice to almost bring it down an octave. So he could achieve singing lessons to do that, to achieve that voice that you hear on film, which is quite phenomenal. That that line we talked about, right? I've crossed oceans of time to find you. You know, it it's just you can't you can't replicate it. But but that's what stood out to me. So I think going back to your your uh assessment at the beginning, yeah, it's missing something. It's lacking something for a film that's two hours and eight minutes long, too, we should say. Right. It does drag at times, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

And he needed this to be a hit because he had just come off, you know, Godfather, which didn't do well, which was made for 50 million. Uh imagine making that today. But you know, I was really kind of stunned when I looked at the box office and saw 215. I was like, whoa.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah, it it it's yeah, I mean, you would uh you would consider it a very successful film for sure. And um, you know, now one of the things too, his sort of you know, he he Francis says uh the the leaning into the practical practical effects in large part I think was because he wanted to do things that that is the way they would have been done at that time, in that period, you know, the late 1800s, early 1900s. Right. And he even owned a silent camera from the silent era. He had his own that he had purchased at some and they used it, and there's a sequence you can see. I say the John Lennon Dracula, you know, he's walking down the the sidewalk when he first bumps into Winona's character as not the woman that he knew as his bride, but you know, in this other universe hundreds of years later, because of course he's you know immortal, right? And um it has that old-timey look to it, and it's because they used that camera, which is again another little fascinating tidbit. Yeah. So what's the standout for you? You know, you talked about some of the the criticisms, but what is it that that you know you appreciate other than what we've mentioned already?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Well, all the things, you know, it won three Oscars, and I think sound was one of them. So the sound was really uh well done. The costuming is incredible. Um I don't know, did it win an effects Oscar? I don't know if I remember I wrote them down.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah, I was trying to look up the awards.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, I don't think I I wrote them down, but um everything about it, the performances, Hopkins is great in it. Um I I liked everybody's performance.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

You know, also too it's pretty interesting when you think about it. I mean, I I don't know that you take on it, but you know, Dracula goes to all these lengths, right, crosses ocean time to get to Elizabeth Elizabeth or Mina, whoever, you know, take your pick.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

And in the end, spoiler alert, he says, I love you too much to condemn you. Because she she's actually now begging, right? You know, I wanna I want to live this immortal life with you, whatever. And, you know, before he goes there, he finally, I don't know, has a moment of consciousness, I guess, as Dracula or something, and says, No, I love you too much. So that's a pretty, when you sit with that for a minute, it's a pretty striking uh statement to make, and it's a pretty poignant moment in the film, I thought, between those two characters, especially him sort of, you know, this selflessness in that moment that he's demonstrating is not, I think it's very unexpected. It's very unexpected. You know, Francis Too, Mike, is a director. We've seen this numerous times, you know, being fans of his films, especially the Godfather uh trilogy, but he's in the mix, right? He's in there, he's on it with you, he's right beside the camera. He's talking uh Gary Oldman, also on the Sat uh Happy Sad Confused podcast with Josh Horowitz, is talking about that and how he's you know he's giving you direction literally during the scene. And yeah, he just lets the camera roll.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I mean, I don't know how much film he ends up wasting, but uh Yeah, and you see it on the Godfather extras where he's right in Al's ear, whispering the lines for him to say. When he's when he Don Tomasino dies infamously in the third one, and and he says, Why am I so feared and you so loved? You know, and it's and it's coming out of Francis. It is pretty wild.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah, it's almost like a puppet. They seem to, you know, and Gary Ultman at that time, he said he was just he was a lot more confrontational at that time because there's you there's scenes behind the scenes, like footage you can see of the two of them getting into it. Very similar, I found, to Shia LaBeouf and Francis getting into it on the set of Megalopolis, right? Where Shia's like, well, what if we try this? And at one point, Francis literally says to Shia, who's am I the director or are you the director? So it's not the first time I think he's he's faced this. And look, the actors are a peculiar breed, right? I think they would, you know, Gary Oldman admits that himself in this interview, but they do seem to also have a respect for that because it's a lost art, right? You don't have it's it's a rare now that you would find a director that immersed. I think Orson Wells was probably much like that too in his day, right? I mean, there's footage of him laying down on the floor underneath the camera while they're getting a shot. And so I think I think it's it's rare, but I think actors is it's probably something they appreciate. Yeah, oh, definitely. Definitely. Now, Mike's famous segment here on the O'Brien podcast. We're gonna pivot and go to the who could have worn it better or who were, I don't know, some Oscar-related segment we're gonna do. A couple I'm gonna do real quick.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

People that were cast or wanted to be cast. Steve Busemi was supposed to be Renfield, but he turned it down. Charlie Shant for Keanu Reeves as a character. Johnny Depp. It was a connection with Winona Ryder. That's right. Um Juliet Lewis was um she auditioned for Lucy, the redhead in the film.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

This is Copela's list of Dracula. So this is the list I think the studio gave him and and I'll just go through it. Daniel Day Lewis, Alec Baldwin, Jason Patrick, Aiden Quinn, Christian Slater, Canna Reeves for Dracula, Nick Cage. They're they're related. And you know, Nick Cage is in Renfield, really, really great. Dermot Mulrooney, Nick Cassavetti's John Cassavetti's brother. Wow, yeah. Ray Leota, Alan Rickman, and this one little tidbit that was a stand-in for Keanu.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

This is wild, Mike. Now, this was I had to be. You know that I I you know in my mind, I'm like, he wouldn't have even been alive at the time.

unknown 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

So yeah, tell the story here. Johnny Knoxville was of Jackass fame. Yep. That's crazy. That's like, I mean, he's still a relatively young guy. And this was this is uh 34 years ago this film was was released. Yeah. So he was very, very young. He must have been in his early 20s.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

But you know, again, there's so many things I would compliment about the film, but ultimately I wouldn't recommend it. I would say, uh with Renfield. I haven't seen Nasferatu yet, the new one.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

I think I need to watch that.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Coppola feels like the original silent version, you know, Nasferatu. Still the greatest vampire film ever made. Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't seen FW Murnau. But yeah, listen, Gary Oldman, Sir Gary Oldman, he I'd say carries the film, but you just he's so striking and so fascinating to watch, as is Sir Anthony Hopkins, who, of course, you know, I just adore the guy. I think he's the best.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Have you seen The Simpsons Treehouse of Horrors? Oh. No.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

They do a spoof on it.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Oh, yeah. And Mr. Burns is Dracula. And the funniest thing is when he's walking and the shadow behind him starts doing all sorts of crazy things. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

He has the hair doing everything too, right? Yeah. I guess I did see that. Yeah, the shadows was another thing, too. That's again this practical. They just had another person doing the moves.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

And it's and then it would just kind of pan and you'd be with him. You're like, wait a second, how is that? You know, and you would think digital effects, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Yeah, the uh listen, I I I enjoy the film. I liked, I enjoyed re-watching it, but I agree with you. I there's something lacking. It it's uh either they could have tightened it up, or you know, a little bit of snip-snip, a little bit more time in the editing room, or some more action sequences of some sort.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

There's something Yeah, Renfield is such a better character than he was portrayed in this. It was such a short part where it's a much bigger part. Not like uh Universal's Dracula. There is no Renfield in it.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

I don't know. I I feel like they kept going back to Tom Waits quite a bit in the film, in my in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah, maybe that was one of the issues where it was just it didn't fit right or something.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah. 57 IMDB metascore, Mike, that's a little and that's a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

It's low, but you know, I I think I'm in the 60s somewhere. This is we don't look at them as A, B, and C. I look at them differently.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

But Rotten Tomatoes, just again, because we always quote them, critics, 69%. Now, I think where I am is a little closer to the audience here. 79%. That's about where I land, somewhere in there.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, I think I'm with the critics and the at the lower end.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

But it has its, it's it, it has its standout moments. Uh it's got a great cast. Yeah, there's a lot of good. Absolutely. Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, we're not certainly not saying that we hate the film by any stretch. Just wanting more. It leaves you wanting more. Uh and frankly, it would be one other thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

I think it was a pacing and an action kind of because there's not a lot of action. So you gotta pace it. You know, think of the conversation. Francis Ford Copeland. And and that movie is very slow moving. And for a lot of people, it's tough to get into.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

We were slated to do an episode on the conversation, and it never happened. Did we skip it? We never had the conversation about the conversation. Yeah. I thought we did. But uh yeah, I I again I agree with your assessment, uh, but I do think it's worth the watch. And uh it's a classic at this point. I mean, it's a 34-year-old film at this point, which is uh hard to believe.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

But but again, I would I would say watch Renfield first. Watch Godfather III. Watch Godfather III, watch um um Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Yeah, that's a very interesting comparison to draw in terms of you know, a similar genre, a similar story, and yet lots of costumes, lots of makeup. But but there was something more there. There was something it's probably not a fair comparison just in terms of the age of filmmaking, and you're talking about a film that's 34 years old. And again, though, the lengths that Francis and team went to to create this film, it's it's pretty spectacular. And again, his young son at the time, Roman, to do what he did, that's pretty phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

One final note that sequence we were talking about, where all the women knew nudity was gonna be part of it when they signed on. So when it came to shooting it, Francis was like, he went to his kid and said, tell them, you know, they're gonna have to get nude now. And he was so uncomfortable, he had to have someone else approach them.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Well, it's a bit odd that Francis would make his young son do bidding. That's a bit weird, but yeah, so there you go, Mike. Bram Stoker's Dracula from 1992. I I just cannot believe, you know, is it was cool to see uh God, I love Winona Ryder. I'd love to do an episode on Heathers one day.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

You mentioned people watching this that hear that name and they're like, oh, the the Stranger Things actress.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

That's that's true. That's true. And and and and we should say that that's a great testament to uh her longevity and again, still a young woman, a young actress. She really did. She really had her day in the in the media, but uh it's nice to and and honestly, I'm pleased but somewhat surprised to see her engaging in quite a lot of interviews and things, and uh strange phenomenon was like like a whole reinvention of her. Yeah, and she it was it was it it was enjoyable to see her talking so fondly of her memories of making this film because she remembered it all. She memories are quite vivid. So um, you know, of course, we talked about her with Beetlejuice and then Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and right she's timeless, she's ageless, as is Keanu. He's another freak of nature, but uh it's an amazing cast from top to bottom. When you know, even the the uh supporting cast is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

And you know, when Keanu was announced, I was like, the parenthood kid, the the the stoner character from Bill and Ted. I thought he was gonna be pigeonholed into that kind of a role. And then he goes and does this, and he's done, you know, John Wick and these other things tremendous.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

You know, we on the one of the last episodes we did, we were uh talking about Brad Pitt, right? Yeah. And I asked you, uh, where do you rank Brad Pitt? Where is he in the pantheon of actors and so forth and leading men and whatever? Keanu's another interesting conversation, right? Because a guy that like Brad Pitt, everybody loves, right? And you never see him embroiled. If anything, you see just the opposite. He's, you know, uh uh escorting an old woman across the street, he's saving puppies, he's doing, you know, all these.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

We did a movie of his, didn't we, last year? And it was yeah, it was the movie done by um the money ball actor. I can't think of his name.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Oh, uh yeah, you're talking about uh um yeah, we just did it. It was it was on Apple TV, right, and we did not enjoy the film, quite frankly. It not Seth. I always want to say Seth Rogan or Josh. I always want to go right, you know. This is what happens to me with him all the time. I want to say Seth Rollins from the WWE, because he's somewhere in there. We need to get it before we wrap. So can you please figure that out? Because um isn't it uh uh uh Joe Jonah Hill, Jonah Hill. Jonah Hill. See, we always now I got it all by myself, but normally I say Jonah, you say hill. I say Jonah, you say hill. Jonah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

If it wasn't going from my phone, I would have got the hill in there.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Yeah, it was uh God, what was it? It began with a C. What was the name of that? Uh it was something filthy, I think. Coming coming again.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

He was playing, Keanu was basically paying playing a version of his real life self, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This good guy. But he's a very likable guy. He seems very down-to-earth, and again, you never see him smeared across the headlines for anything negative, and so, but he's certainly I think his best work is yet to come too, because I think he's still I don't think he's landed the role yet. You know, there's a script out there for Keanu that uh certainly well you think of John Wick, you think of speed, you think of all these things. But you what you don't but what you don't think of is like that role, that Tarantino film, or the whatever it is that he hasn't got yet. Yeah. Um and I don't know why that is. I don't know if that's his choosing or he's not getting those parts. Uh I don't know. He's an A-list actor by far.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

So and I think they're working on John Wick 5 right now, which I think I'm done with that character, like I'm done with Jason Bourne.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Right. And I wish, and see, this is where I lose a little bit. You know, he doesn't need to do it. There's the story's been told. Just say no. It's okay to say no. Right. You're gonna be okay. So that that comes me a little bit. But then the dump truck backs up and you say, you know, well, yes. But uh so, Mike, here we go. Dracula, Bram Stoker's Dracula, to be exact, is in the books here as part of Oh Brother Podcast's Halloween fest this year. It rolls on and on. We still got episodes coming to you. Uh we've got I can't wait for the next episode because this is one where I don't have to do a licker research, but I'm gonna dive way, way deep into it and uh might figure out what it is.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

I know what's coming, but I don't know what the next one is.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

You don't know what the one is after that, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Maybe it's oh, is the next one the next one is uh Okay, I got it.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

The next one is that one, yeah, for folks that are watching. But uh so I can't wait. That that just makes me really uh excited for the next one. So, anyways, but uh as always, want to thank those that have continued to support the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, like our videos, share with your friends and family, uh you know, continue to see a lot of growth and engagement out there too. I always say, drop a comment, leave us a comment. You know, if it's critical, that's fine, just be respectful. And uh, we continue to get, you know, not only some criticisms, but also uh some education too, which I love. People say, no, it was actually this, or oh, you missed this, or we love that because you know, we can't get it all. I mean, it's uh trying to give you our take on it, do some research and so forth. But we certainly, except for the first looks on the O'Brother Podcast, we certainly do our homework on these films. It's not like we're coming in uh cold by any stretch of the imagination. And hopefully that comes across to you. If you prefer to consume the O'Brother Podcast in the audio form, you can find us on all major podcast platforms. Uh, all of that information is in the show notes uh on every episode. So please, please, please uh follow us, like the videos, leave a review. Um, and I'm still, Mike, trying to get somebody to use the messaging feature in the audio podcast description. There's a link right at the top. Doesn't cost you anything. Click that, send us a text message. We want to hear from you. Don't care what that message is at this point. I just want to know it's working. So but yeah, Mike, Halloween Fest rolls on and on. So what and I want to say to you a happy early birthday because when this episode drops, it's going to be your birthday. So that's another special time of year in the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Yeah. Something of uh I'm done with birthdays.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Yeah, you're at that point. You stop sort of counting, celebrating, whatnot. But uh but a happy birthday to my co-host and Mike. That's gonna do it for another episode of the O Brother Podcast. I've been your host, Dan Smith, alongside me as always, the birthday boy, my brother from another mother, or the same mother, possibly, I hear. I hope Mike Smith, and we will see you next time. Bye, everyone. Worst closing ever.