SPEAKER_01 0:00

You can't watch the film now post-COVID and not have all these interesting connections and parallels to what's happening in the story. You're listening to the O Brother Podcast, Real Brothers, Real Talk. Welcome to the O Brother Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Smith, alongside me as always, my brother from the same other, Mike Smith. How's it going? Uh, this Halloween fest, Dan. Good man. Halloween Fest, as you mentioned, rolling on. Only the second of several episodes yet to come in Halloween Fest. Mike Sporting, let's see, let's watch, oh, that's let's watch horror movies. It's a little play on the let's all go to the lobby. Exactly, which we talked about in Kill Bill. I love that. Yeah, that's that's yeah, we did. That's great. This is uh an interesting one because we've done now Halloween Fest, again, real quick before we dive too deeply in. First of all, still under construction, not happy. I tried to do something a little different before we came on air tonight, not happening. Next episode, I promise you, it will at least look a little bit different. I don't, I can't promise what that will be, but it's not going to be this. For those that are tuning in and watching, uh, and every year for the last several years, Mike, we've been doing Halloween fest, as we've coined it here at the podcast, which is we lean into all things within the horror genre and not just one facet of horror, right? It's in this case, we're talking about zombie horror. Right. And we kicked off with more of a psychological thriller/slash horror, which was the film Obsession by Curry Barker. By the way, you've been getting blasted online. And you've said, and I I support you in this, which is that the problem when you're promoting the episode, the full episode, is you put these clips out, as people know, right, on YouTube and on Instagram. So they only get a little flavor. There's not a lot of context. And I'm trying to get people to engage and tune in, which they do, but in this case, a clip I put out about Curry Barker's obsession was you, you made this brief comment about you watched an interview, and the way he was talking was a little bit highfalutant, almost like, what are you, Spielberg over here? And that's what I people took it and ran with it, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, that was really self-deprecating on me because I was an actor in college, technically, but I never thought of myself as an actor.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah, but you were a little jabbed to Barker in that comment.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

A little bit. You know, like when you watch this film we're doing today, which is called World War Z, starring Brad Pitt. Yeah, this is on the other end of the spectrum. And, you know, the thing about and I'll just say this about obsession is my defense. What did I say more than anything throughout that whole episode was I hope these guys got paid.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, but I even okay, but I'll turn to what I kept saying, and which is my response to a couple of the people that have, and I just got one. We just got a new comment. Another one. Yeah, and in fact, I'm gonna I'm glad I don't get notified. I know it it would take up your whole life. But all it says is, what have you done? It's like, well, we've done enough to at least get you to engage on this clip, so I think we're off to the races now. We're doing just fine. But but but my my response to some of the people who commented right away was did you listen? Again, they're watching the clip, they're not then clicking and going to the episode, which I certainly was highly complimentary throughout in terms of what Cooper Tomlinson and Curry Barker were able to achieve and accomplish in the making of this film, as you were too. We didn't hate on the film, certainly.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

I think we were as fair as anybody's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Well, yeah, but we again I feel like we spent more time talking about how impressed we were or more interested we were in how this film got to be and the money that it's made and how successful it's been. We weren't taking anything away from the filmmakers in this case. So, anyways, just to set the record straight. Yeah. But you taught you held up World War Z for those watching and or uh listening and not watching.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

And uh, you know, did you watch this version? Do you know which version you watched?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

I just watched the theatrical version. Okay, yeah, there's two. Now, here I want to point out that World War Z, Mike, the last two years on Halloween Fest, we've done a zombie review, you know, a movie, zombie movie review. We we we did Sean of the Dead two years ago, and then we did Night of the Living Dead, George Romero, George A. Romero, and now we're doing, as you said, World War Z, starring Brad Pitt, which directed by Mark Forster, and you know, I didn't really know, so I was uh watching an episode of Bill Mars' show on HBO, Real Time, and Max Brooks was on. He's on there, you know, fairly regularly. Mel Brooks' son, the legendary Mel Brooks, for those that don't know. And I didn't realize, I didn't put the, I didn't make the connection between the novel that Max Brooks put out back in 2006, which was like an you know, oral document of the zombie wars, right? So the it's basically this fictionalized set of interviews with people who survived the zombie apocalypse. This film has almost nothing to do with the storyline in the book, but just I had and I also didn't know Max Brooks's background leaning into sort of zombie stories. I really didn't know that. So that was interesting to me. But I was an extremely troubled making of. Yeah, the production was, you know, riddled with all kinds of issues from the get-go, really. Not the least of which was Damon Lindelof coming in and you know, uh supporting uh a writing of the third act or a rewriting of the third act. And as a result of that, what I found noteworthy about that was that Matthew Fox from Lost, which of course Damon Lindelof was associated with producing with J.J. Abrams, gets cut out. His part was supposed to be much larger. He plays this like paratrooper militant type. Yeah. But he's got a very ends up having a very small part in the actual release.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

I don't even think he has a line. No, he he did he's got a line, he's got a few lines. I remember seeing him in the chopper and then he was gone. But yeah, you see him before he filmed a third act. Some of it, not all of it, because it, you know, it got nicks because it was kept going over budget. But the third act was gonna be filmed in Russia. Some of it was, and Matthew Fox was gonna be a big part of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Well, and there's a scene in the film where you see a plane departing, and it's like Belarus Airways, so there's a little bit of an indirect, you know, uh call call to that. Mike, former UN employee traverses the globe in a race against time to stop a zombie pandemic that is toppling armies and governments and threatens to destroy humanity. That's the that's the IMDB setup here as far as the plot goes. Now, Brad Pitt, too, I was wondering about, because now I'd seen this film before, and I was surprised at how low-rated it is. Now, this is it's not an A film, but it's not a C D film by any stretch of the imagination. It's a good film, and Mike, seven minutes in, and you're off to the races with the action, and it never stops for the most part.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

And it's a lot of action. I mean, this is an action, not you know, like zombies like you know, the George Romero, you know, wandering around stuff. This is heavy duty garbage truck driving down the street, crashing real cars. That was all, that was not CGI. That was all done. I think they brought over something like 500 cars, and they said they sm they crashed about 400 of them.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, a lot of a lot of uh practical effects when it was possible. Also a lot of CGI as well. Yeah, a lot of green screen stuff. Now this is this came out June 21st, 2013.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

So we are uh what just beyond the 13 year and anniversary came out after The Walking Dead three years after, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah, well was already on.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

I mean The Walking Dead is still going in certain forms, but you know, when this came out, I I saw it in the theater, and I remember thinking, uh, you know, it's The Walking Dead, but you know, watching having not watched it in a long time, I really enjoyed it a lot more this time through than the first couple times.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah, I mean it has its problems, which I think can be clearly attributed to some of the production struggles that it encountered. I mentioned one of them. Do you want to talk about some of the other things that cropped up?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Well, by the end of it and there was a bidding war for this film between uh Plan B, which is Brad Pitt's company, and Leo DiCaprio's company. They wanted it as well. But compare it to Obsession, and you know, this was like a million dollars, that was like 15 million.

unknown 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

But one of the problems was uh the guy you just mentioned, the director, Mark Forster and Brad Pitt weren't even speaking. He was the handpicked director by him. At the end of the film, they would only communicate via notes. Somebody had to bring a note, ask a question. So that delayed things and caused all sorts of you know problems.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah, Mark Forster uh did uh folks might, you know, if you think of Monster's Ball with uh Billy Bob Thornton and a film that we covered on the podcast a while back, A Man Called Auto, starring Tom Hanks. So he's got a pretty diverse, you know, resume. But uh yeah, it's it's the note there, you're talking about the production and the bidding rights and things. And I thought it was interesting because in the headlines right now is of course this merger between Paramount and Warner Brothers that just went through is basically all but solidified, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:14

And will be Sky Dance as of tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Right, which was already the name of Ellison's company, and a lot of people speculate that's a bit of a posturing by him to say I won. I won. Yeah. I don't even have to go out of my way to make some new name of this merchant.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Don't shed any tears for the guy Zavlov or Zavlev or whatever his name is. He gets an $880 million golden parachute on his way out.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. So I'm not shedding too many tears. But this production, World War Z, was of course Paramount Skydance. So just kind of a noteworthy there. But yeah, what I'm most impressed about is the the nonstop action that they could sort of continue to keep this going from the opening scene, basically.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Right. Like that that opening sequence where the truck hit, you know, there's a the they're stuck in traffic and they don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, so slow it down a little bit. So Brad Pitt, his character Jerry, and his wife and his daughter are in traffic, as you said. Two daughters, right? Is it two daughters? Yeah, two daughters. Yeah, I think you're right, actually. And they're it's set in Philadelphia, although they filmed it in Glasgow. Glasgow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

And so they're stuck in traffic, and Brad Pitt gets out at one point, and you know, he's talking to a cab driver that's stuck, and they're like, hey, what's going on? He's oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Somebody had just clipped him and his mirror came off.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah, that's right. That's right. It was uh it was a policeman on a motorcycle. Right. Right? And uh, or or maybe it was a car because the policeman comes by and starts to say something to him as he's driving by on the motorcycle. And as he's talking mid-sentence, the cop gets plowed into by a big truck, as you mentioned earlier. Fantastic jump scare. And it never turns back at that point, it just continues to go and go and go.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

And and the cop is yelling at him, stay in your car. And mid-sentence, he gets barreled over by the truck. Yes, and somehow, Brad Pitt, this is one of the holes I think at the beginning. He's driving through this chaos and somehow making it, you know, ultimately he does get jackknifed, and you know, they get hit pretty hard.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

They get hit about four times from all directions. Yeah. And, you know, you then start to slowly it it slowly be gets revealed. Something out of the ordinary, something out of this world, quite frankly, is going on, and you're seeing you know, and Bradley.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

He's like an investigator. He kind of comes off as like a uh a Jason-born character. So, you know, that's what I kept thinking of.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Well, yeah, there's been discomparisons to that, but that's why I'm like, he's an investigator? Where's he getting all of his kind of skills, skill level?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

It was a bit that was maybe a bit of a stretch, but although throughout the film, he you can tell he sees things, he'll stop for a second and he'll notice something that people who are just in a panic wouldn't do. You know, like me and you would just be running and like, get the hell out of here. You know, I wouldn't stop and say, hmm, what is that guy doing?

SPEAKER_01 15:06

One of the things I didn't care for was this sort of ambiguity that remains until the film is over, quite frankly, which we should also say here that it's just recently been confirmed they are gonna start development on a sequel, which was, you know, talked about back when the film came out, and then it just kept getting shelved and never gonna be made. Yeah. But what I didn't care for was the ambiguity as to the origins of this virus that has set off this zombie pandemic.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

And you know, you can't reasons for that.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yes, I do, which is something that hopefully they won't, I guess, uh run into with the sequel. But the with with China, right? They were afraid of offending that market by insinuating that it originated there, right? Which was maybe was that in the original script? I don't even remember if that was actually part of the script. They scrapped it. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

And they scrapped it because that that's a huge international market. For sure, for sure. Yeah. And the other thing I kept thinking through this whole thing was this is pre-COVID. And all your thoughts, like, you know, yeah, we didn't get to the zombie part, but uh over a million people died.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well, you can't you can't uh watch the film now post-COVID, right, and not have all these interesting connections and parallels to you know what's happening in the story. Now you know, the again, Max Burks' novel is the what is it, the oral history of the zombie wars or something. And so just the just the structure and the the you know the what that novel is about, it just wouldn't have worked. You need to create a protagonist like they did in this character of Brad Pitts to send him on this adventure basically and be the hero to protect the you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

And so and that third act was gonna be like I combo against the zombies.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

I wanted to see that third act, you know, the more I learned about it.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I actually bought a copy of the unrated cut today from eBay. It was four bucks. So I'm gonna watch it. I think it's a four-hour cut. So there was a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

So that was that was entirely filmed. It was complete? It wasn't complete, but a lot of the third act was you know, it sounds like it's really him going on a rampage against the zombies, like in the in the in the snow, in the winter, which I again in Russia. Right. It sounds pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

And Brooks was he didn't want to go see it. He was gonna hate it and say, Oh, that's not accurate, that's not accurate. But the way the movie turned out, the story changed so much from his novel that it was gonna be based on that he kind of enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, and there's an interesting extra, which I didn't get all the way through, that's on the the digital copy that I have, which is George A. Romero, who we mentioned. It's I think uh maybe an author writer about zombies or something, and then Max Brooks is there. Or it's a ver virologist or somebody in the the science. Yeah, wasn't Max Brooks wasn't in extras. Oh, well. Well, Max Brooks, yeah, it's it's a town hall they did called like Zombie Con or whatever, and it's the three of these guys, and they hadn't George A. Romero and Max Brooks had not met in person until this event. And you see them backstage meeting and getting to know each other before they go off.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Wow. It's not okay. There's extras. Maybe it'll be on that one. But it is on, I think, the director's cut.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Okay. And there's a lot of other featurettes on the digital as well, but that's a nice little extra tidbit that you get. Because I've seen that Max Burks has been a little bit critical of the way George A. Romero portrayed zombies in his films, but I don't think it's fair to compare. I mean, that was a totally different, not to mention the social commentary that Romero himself was uh, you know, uh employing in his films. And we talked about that when we did the night of the living dead.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Right. Having a black lead actor was like unheard of at that time. Things like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yes, yes. So you're I mean, you said you you enjoyed the film more so now, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I did. I you know, I think when I went to the theater, I just I think I was starting to burn out on the walking dead and the whole zombie thing. You know, I think we both did burn out eventually.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

We did, yeah. I I stayed around for fear of the walking dead, and then I tapped out after that. I I couldn't hang anymore after that. At some point I need a resolution. We gotta wrap it up and go home and a happy ending or whatever, or not, you know, like this one. The ending of this, it is a little unsatisfying, but it when you when you recognize that there were plans to do a sequel back, then okay, I get it. And it wasn't the original ending.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

But he's talking about it at the end. He's talking about the next chapter, what's gonna happen next.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Well, Mike, his character, you hear the vo you hear him say over the credits, yeah, this isn't the end. Correct. Not even close, he says, right? Yeah. So it's setting it up. But you're right, we're three years into The Walking Dead at this point. And so now I had not seen this film. First time I saw it was about three years ago. Oh, wow. So it took me a long time to get to this one, but uh I I thoroughly enjoyed it. And there's another one I would recommend for folks if they haven't seen it: The Train to Busan, which is a great, I think it's a Korean-based zombie film, and it is one I haven't seen. Just as intense as this. I own it, it's in my collection. Wow. Just as good as this. It kicks off in the beginning and it never stops, and it's super intense.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

The director's cut is also on 4K. Okay, now that's on that's the 4K version you're holding up? No. Okay, I didn't think so. The Blu ray.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

I didn't even know there was a 4K until I started doing research.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, the trying to think. You know, we talked about the setting. I mean, it was pretty impressive what they did. You know, you're watching it and you see these zombies and you think it was like with a quiet place. I remember, and this is actually more of a testament to a quiet place of what Krasinski did with the original. When I saw those creatures, those aliens, whatever they were, it's like I've never, whatever it was, I'd never seen that on film before. Right. And even with this, there was something different about the movement and what they were able to do, not only with the actual actors in the, I don't know how many mic, 80 plus contortionists from around the world that they had had had utilized for an incredible amount of extras. Yeah. And so you've got a pretty good base of actual actors, stunt performers, contortionists, whatever. Right. So that allows you to have kind of a good foundation, and then you build on that with the CGI. So I think it creates a much more realistic look. Now, when you see some of the featurettes and what they did with this film with the green screen, Mike, it's really phenomenal. It's phenomenal. I think there's about eight. Yeah, I mean, the the world building, I mean, this is not volume technology they're using. This is old school green screen. Right. And for a 13-year-old film at this point, it's really, it holds up really well.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

The one sequence I always remember, and I think this was in the trailer, is when they're climbing over each other to get over the wall in Jerusalem. Yes. And the way that was done was pretty remarkable because there's some CGI, but at the same time, the wall is kind of you know at an angle like this. So they're it's almost like the old Batman show, TV show where they're climbing up. Yes, they're really climbing.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Sort of optical illusion.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

That they create. Yeah, I think of that with Burt Ward and Adam West with the rope going up the wall.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

And then somebody would always open the window and it'd be Sammy Davis Jr. or somebody like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

And if you're like me, young enough or willing to suspend disbelief, it works. You know, the illusion works. But so talk a little bit about so okay, the zombie, we we realize there's a zombie outbreak now. We don't know where it came from, how it started, whatever. And he now, because of his UN credentials, he's lucky enough to get on a chopper out of there, only to realize this is an impact in the entire globe, right? So fast forward a little bit to where we get to a point where he's come up with a plan he thinks that might help, you know, uh ward off.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

He's talking to this guy, and the guy um who was actually a film director, he was not an actor, but I could think he was a friend of somebody on the film and they did a screen test and they really liked him, and so he was in the movie. He talks about this tenth man doctrine, and he was the tenth man, which is if nine people absolutely believe a hundred percent that this is how we fix it, it's the tenth man's job to think the complete opposite and work in the other direction. Now it's not called it's real, but it's not called the tenth doctrine. I've I I don't think I wrote down the document.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Well, they do talk about it as the tenth man. The tenth man. That's exactly what they call it. I'm glad you're bringing that up. See, now that is something that I think if there's any threads to Max Brooks, what Max Brook is commenting on or dealing with in his novel, right? It's this ineptitude of the government or their unwillingness to admit or be open, quite frankly, and transparent about things. And I I found it funny, there's there's what they call uh, what do they call a mic? Is it a red shirt like in Star Trek? Like it's it's come to be known as a I think a red shirt, this character that comes in and they die within like the first five minutes of the film, right? Right. Well, there's a there's a Harvard uh Harvard virologist named Dr. Fassbach. Right. He was like the Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci, Dr. Fassbach. Again, yeah, this comes out way before COVID. This is seven years before COVID. But they're talking about the Spanish flu, and we were talking about that. The Wuhan flu, right? The whole China thing that we had that was actually happening during the COVID pandemic. And so I found that to be just one moment where you could maybe thread it back or connect it back to, but that was about it. There weren't very few where they were going to be critical of this or that or insinuate that it was coming from here or there. I mean, they kind of, you know, India, right? And you mentioned Jerusalem, because talk about this character, the the young boy that we see in the latter part of the film. Can you explain that film, that scene a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 27:20

There's a a young boy and he's got no hair, and he looks kind of sickly. He's very thin and gaunt. And he's sitting there, and there's a this is the one CGI effect that was definitely CGI, which was I I found funny. He's like on a bridge in Jerusalem. Yeah, he's on this bridge, and all these zombies are rushing at him. And they run by him like he's not even there, like he's invisible. And Brad Pitt happens to notice that. And then when he hears about the Tenth Man Doctrine, that gives him this idea of maybe maybe if we infect ourselves, they'll just kind of not see us, which is ultimately what Brad Pitt does.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah, it serves as like a camouflage to the zombies.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Right. Like essentially we kind of see him sickly like them, so they move on to the next person.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, and there's a there's an actor, Mike. There's a sequence when subsequent to the one you're describing, where Brad Pitt, they end up in Wales and they're at the World Health Organization there. And it's it's funny because WHO, the World Health Organization, one of the actors would go on shortly after this to be cast as the next Doctor Who. I thought that was kind of funny. But there's a there's one of these actors who is a zombie in a very significant sequence when Brad Pitt is trying to get his hands on one of these viruses that they have bottled up in this lab, and he's gonna infect himself, essentially. Spoiler alert. And that the actor that plays that zombie that is on the other side of the glass from the room that he's in is so creepy and so intense, man. It was it was really awesome performance.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

He was a theater actor. That's right. That that the director had seen in something and thought he could contort his face.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Well, what was yeah, was that what it was?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

What there was something unique about his skill set that Yeah, he could contort his face in a way and make these kind of chin movements that are really difficult to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Peter Capaldi, who would go on to be Doctor Who, that's who I was thinking of. It's a that's a great sequence, and it's one of the man doctrine guy. Peter Capaldi?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah, I thought that was him. Was it? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

There's the older guy Capaldi right there.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, that's a totally different guy.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

You're no, what you're talking about is the guy that wasn't an actor, frankly. Right. Ludie Boken, who is right here. That's who you're thinking of.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Yes. And you know it's funny. The guy you just showed, I've seen him. I've never watched Doctor Who. I've flipped past it. And that's Peter Capal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There he is. Yeah. I recognize him.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah. It's a good, it's a it's a solid cast, too. The acting is great. I love the cinematography of this film. There's something that's the lenses, I guess, or whatever they're using to um it you have to see it visually. It's it's very stunning. And there's a lot of sequences that there's one sequence that's entirely in the dark, and they're essentially using lights from, you know, spotlights that are nearby or flashlights or whatnot. And it just adds to the sort of you know tension of the of the sequences. Yeah. I think it's Mike. We again we always talk about IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes as the primary sources of ratings that people go to these days. IMDB 63? Come on. Wow. That's ridiculous. Rotten Tomatoes isn't much better, Mike. The critics, 67, the audience, 72. For me, this is a mid-B movie, at least. Like 85, I'd give it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I'm kind of with you. Yeah. So I was shocking. I mean, it was entertained. And to be honest with you, Dan, if I knew all the troubles and the turmoil that was going on, I would have thought this hasn't got a shot. And we we found out when we did um F1 that that movie was Brad Pitt's number one making movie. This was number two. Over 500 million.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Worldwide, 540 million and some change. Now, there's a lot of different reports on what the budget ends up at. It's probably close to 300 million.

unknown 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Especially if you're gonna 200. If you're gonna add in the marketing and all of that, you're talking millions and all that. Yeah. But a very successful film. And frankly, it was the number one horror film up until the film that we just reviewed came out, which is Obsession, which has exceeded this now. I think it's still the number one highest grossing, I should say, zombie film of all time. Right. I I believe it still holds that record for whatever that means. But now, Brad Pitt, what's your what's your assessment on Brad Pitt, Mike? He I mean, he has an incredible resume. All right, I think of even even bit parts like in True Romance and California, which is a I think it's an underrated film of his that a lot of people don't talk about with Juliet Lewis. Great film. Meet Joe Black.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

That's a tough watch. That's a tough film.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

It is a tough watch. It is a tough watch. But he's great in it. Now, this is I know this is blasphemy. I'm in full transparency, I'm gonna once again admit it on the air, and we will have to do a review on this film. She keeps trying to get me to watch it. I there's no reason I haven't yet. It's just on the list. I mean, I'd there. Fight Club, sadly enough, I have not seen yet, which is ridiculous, right? Yeah. Yeah. But where do you put him in the sort of pantheon of great actors? This is a very interesting one for me because he is he's an A-list actor, indisputable, right? And he's done some incredible work. And he is an Oscar winner. He did win for Best Supporting Actor for what, 2019, uh, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yes. Which is getting making a sequel to the Cliff Booth, you know, film they're they're they're putting out. But he hasn't won a lead actor award. He's been nominated, but he hasn't won. Yeah. I think he lost to Sean Penn and Milk uh the year that he was nominated for Moneyball, I think is what he was nominated for. But what where do you put Brad Pitt in that kind of he's kind of in that I don't know Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt, where do you where does he land?

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Well, funny because Tom Cruise's film just tanked, which I think it's his first film to tank. I'm dying to see it.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Very interesting. I know it's making me want to see it even more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

But I put him up pretty high. Like I think he like I always think of the the actors, and it's funny, I don't know why it just came on today, and I started watching um the Jack Lemon, Walter Mathau movies. Oh, Grumpy Old Men? Grumpy Old Men. Yeah. And when I think of great actors like Jimmy Stewart, Jack Lemon, that kind of class.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Do you put him in one of his peers league, George Clooney? Is that where you're going with this? Is he in that elite category of old Hollywood?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

He is. He's like there's a there's a level that cuts off with De Niro and Pacino. Right? And then there's the younger guys, which DiCaprio, yes, those guys. Clooney. That's where I put this group. I think they're incredible talent.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

I think that's fair. And and part of it, like let's be honest, part of it might be just our generational attachment to like we've known Brad Pitt forever. Like he knows.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

So he's I remember Mentelma and Louise.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

And he's about this December, he will turn 63, if you can believe that. That old bastard. There you go. Yeah. And you know, it this is not the first Brad Pitt film we've covered on the most recently we did F1, and we had a lot a lot to say about that. It was a lot of back and forth. You were much more highly favorable of that film than I was and hate it. But yeah, I would agree with you. I think uh he's what we, you know, you call bankable, right? It's like Denzel. I mean, if his name is attached to it, you're gonna go see it. And you know, okay, they all do stinkers. You just mentioned Tom Cruise, right? He's not uh immune to that either. But for the most part, he does some solid work. There's a lot of his, I still haven't said I haven't seen Legends of the Fall, uh, Fight Club, I mentioned, you know, there's there's some out there that I still need to watch.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Him and Ed Norton, I mean, how can it miss? Right?

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, that's a pretty dynamic duo there for sure. So uh yeah, I like Brad Pitt. I mean, uh to me, it's uh it's like a security blanket. You know, it's like, okay, it's a it's at least 70-30. This is gonna be good. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Scores really, really surprise me.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Isn't it shocking to I know, I agree, and I don't know what to attribute that to.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

The mess score I can think of. You know, that's the other thing. People are ragging on us or whatever, about oh, you know, like what are you, Spielberg or something? No, but I've been doing movie reviews for over 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Well, it was you comparing you, it was you saying or insinuating that Curry Barker, who did Obsession, was speaking as if he was Spielberg, and you're like, he's a YouTube content creator, but right. That's where things are trending now. So we're gonna we're gonna be doing more reviews of people like Curry Barker and others.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

So and people from YouTube are getting cast and things all over the place.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah. Well, I look a 63 metascore is is is ridiculous in this case. And that's you know, it's about almost 50%.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

And what I didn't get out was I wonder if some of those critics were getting word about the turmoil and the budgets. So they automatically have a bias that, oh, this this film's in trouble. If you told me they rewrote the entire third act while they were shooting, I would have thought this is not gonna do well. Yeah. But it worked. It worked. They pivoted and who was it? David Fincher was on board to do part two, and I know. I didn't think he still is.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

No, he's not. Uh and isn't didn't he do Fight Club? Wasn't that David Fincher? Yes. Yes. And Seven with Brad Pitt. Well, that's right. Seven, there's another great one. See, and you know, I can't help but when I 12 Monkeys. 12 Years a Slave. He won his Mike, he won his other Oscar as a producer for 12 Years a Slave, by the way. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, a small part in that, but eight minutes he was on screen, I think. But you know, I can't help but think of this weird six degrees because I've said it on the podcast before. I tell the story when I met Sir Anthony Hopkins at my workplace, no less. They were filming a movie there. And uh this is one of the things that stood out when I was talking to him, and he was saying things that he had just finished doing. And he goes, and one of the things he said, well, I just finished a movie with Brad Pitt, and it which which ended up being Meet Joe Black. It hadn't come out yet.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Which I actually liked that at the time.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I did too, I did too. I really did. But I don't think it did really well. Now, where do you rate his acting chops? Has he done has he delivered his lead actor Oscar worthy performance yet? And maybe that isn't why he's taken that prize home. I didn't see Moneyball yet. We've talked about it, but you have, I know.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yep. I think no.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

It's yet to come, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:54

I think it's yet to come. I think his work, he's so good in an ensemble. Thing about the oceans movie, yes, that ensemble is unbelievable. But you know, I I wonder if this Cliff Booth movie, because I liked his character in that Once Upon a Time in America.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah, my credibility is going out the window. I haven't even watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and it's not and I own it. I own it.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

I I said Once Upon a Time in America, so to correct myself.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

That's a great one speaking of De Niro.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

De Niro and a very young Love that. Jennifer or is it Jennifer? Who is Jennifer Jason Lee?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

No. Oh, Jennifer Conley. Jennifer Conley. From Dark Matter, yeah. Yeah, she was like a little she was a little girl. Folks, go see World War. Well, not go see, but rent it, stream it, you know, buy it, frankly. It's cheap on eBay. Yeah, it's it's a good film, and and Brad is good in it. And as are the other actors. I've no issue with the performances at all, frankly. They were all great. And um, it's well shot, too. The directing is fantastic, and this is a pretty epic scale film, Mike. So I have a lot of respect for Mark Forcer and that production crew, what they were able to do here with and again, a lot of things they were running up against, and uh it's really impressive the scale of this thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

So it really is that again, I've seen it at least three or four times, but the scale of it I didn't appreciate until I think this time. And maybe that's because I went through all the extras and watched like they put out a call for 2,000 extras. 3,000 people turned up.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

And you see why one last political item was the fact about Jerusalem and and Israel and Palestine getting together, and you know, that was a a side note in the movie, which you know, look at today, that's a sore subject.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yeah, well, this is it sounds like two vaccines up from the O'Brother podcast. Anything else to say about this one, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 42:19

No, I think if you watch it, you'll like it. Uh, you know, unless you don't like action and you don't like uh good acting.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Yeah, it's not there's not a lot of not a lot of heavy violence. There's a few graphic sequences, but nothing too intense.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

It's PG 13. Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

And it very easily could have been R. It could have been. It could have been, yeah. But yeah, this is one I would recommend people see. And and and uh, you know, we're we're gonna we're we're slowly. This is what I love about this Halloween fest, Mike, on the O Brother Podcast, is we're going from, you know, uh almost the most tame, and we're just gonna get progressively more intense as we go. And we won't give away yet. We want you to anticipate, you know, uh what the next one's gonna be. We've got uh several more episodes to come on the Halloween fest. But yeah, sounds like it's a it's a high recommend to hear from both of us, and certainly pick it up. Like you said, you can get the unrated cut for like five bucks on eBay, folks.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

You can't beat the digital version is probably digital version must be per fairly cheap as well. I don't know. I got it from you, so I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

But oh, okay, good. Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. There's World War Z, the O Brother Podcast Halloween Fest review. Make sure that you like and subscribe. Uh subscribe to the YouTube channel. Appreciate everybody that has done that to this point. Uh, we appreciate the engagement and positive negatives.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

I I have thick skin.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

He does. You can see a lot of that thick skin right here in the O Brother logo, the Halloween fest logo, actually, Mike, the special logo. Mike's uh brought out the special wardrobe tonight for the show. I appreciate that. And you know, it's not lost on me that you are really highly anticipating one particular episode of this year's Halloween fest, because if I look behind you, I notice something changed from the last episode. And I I love, love that that uh setup you've got. So if you're listening and not watching, you're gonna have to tune in to see what Mike's got going on behind him in the O'Brother studios there in Boston. But yeah, it's a good one. I'm glad what we did this one and settled on this for this uh, you know, it's a little again, it's a little like horror adjacent, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

You know what's funny, Dan, is I had this in the pile to give away Spooky with the Empire Pencil.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Wow, that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

So I, you know, now I'm putting it back in my collection.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Put it back on the shelf there. Put it back on the shelf. Well, thanks, folks. Appreciate all the support that uh everyone's been giving us. Whether you're subscribing to the YouTube channel, liking the videos, sharing them with your friends and family, or you're downloading the podcast. If you listen and that's the way that you like to consume your podcast, you know, we couldn't continue to do it without you. We still would, but it makes it a lot easier when you do that. It gives us a reason to continue to go on because we've kind of had enough of each other over the years. We've been six plus years at this, and you know, it's enough already, quite frankly. But as we've said, Mike, I think it's clear. This is our favorite time of year on the the uh the O Brother Podcast. And uh, we're coming back. We got plenty more to come on this year's Halloween fest, so stay tuned, Mike. That's gonna do it for another episode of the O Brother Podcast. I've been your host, Dan Smith. Alongside me, as always, my brother from the same mother, Mike Smith, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Bye, everyone.