SPEAKER_04 0:00

But Mike, can you think of is this the greatest underdog story in film history? It's certainly one of the most inspirational of all time. And as you like to say, this is a perfect movie. There's almost nothing wrong with this movie. From start to finish. What shocked me, having not seen it probably in a decade, what shocked me was how quickly the director got to the emotion of the film and the characters.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

You're listening to the O Brother Podcast. Real Brothers, Real Talk. Welcome to the O Brother Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Smith. Alongside me as always, my brother from the same mother, Mike Smith. How's it going tonight, Dan?

SPEAKER_04 0:49

I I think it's ironic that we're doing a fight movie if you watch our episodes.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I know. Neither of us wants to go back and relitigate Supergirl because we just came off of that episode. But I will say we always talk about the engagement on YouTube in particular, and a lot of engagement there and social media. I had a lot of people hitting us up on Instagram and in response to some of the social clips that we sent out. And I I have to say it was pretty split. There were certainly folks in your corner and folks in my corner. So that was kind of interesting to see that because I didn't think anybody was going to come to my defense because you were more in line with the critics, quite frankly, even though the audience score for Supergirl was, I mean, by all accounts pretty decent considering it, you know, what it's done at the box office, which isn't much.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

I think you gotta take into the point that you know people were watching it. Like like your the polio you put up, more people said they hadn't seen it. Right. And I think the people who saw it they were already predetermined to like it. I I think that's that's my take on. Well, you certainly weren't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

No, I well I wasn't predetermined to hate it though. Well, you're right, which was one of your arguments. And and I gotta say, in the editing room, this because again, I usually see and hear the episodes two, three times.

unknown 2:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

This one was hard to get through. I'm not gonna lie. That supergirl episode was rough. But yeah, but you know, I and and we even had a conversation after the fact, and we'll get to the the specifics of this episode, folks, which if you're watching on YouTube, we've already given it away. But we we had a conversation off mic about I said to you, you know, in reflection, because we were like in our feelings and the emotions were running hot, that, you know, I agreed with you on some points. I I said, yeah, it was a little heavy on some of the subplots. For example, I hadn't recalled in the moment that whole space women pirates that were robbing the space bus or whatever that was totally unnecessary. Did nothing to move the plot forward. But you know, I still stand by the the points I was trying to make in the episode, uh albeit effectively.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

The aftermath in the press is not good. I mean, people are people are musing aloud that they're concerned about the whole DC universe.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Well, and but I I I I do want to point out there I see plenty of support online for the film. You know, there's clearly a lot of hatred for it out there, and people didn't like it, and certainly the critics panned it, and and it hasn't, as you argued, you know, in terms of box office receipts, it's a it's a flop. It's a flop. It's barely cracked a hundred million at this point.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Which is kind of shocking.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Right, right. It's just it's just over that mark now.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Like I don't think either one of us would have argued that point. We both would have thought it was gonna do more than that.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

For sure, for sure. But yeah, it it's so yeah, it is interesting what the long-term viability is gonna be of the James Gunn universe.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

I always point out to you that the box office, forget the first week. It's the second week that really is the tell because that's when word of mouth gets out.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

And it certainly held up here. Yeah. Because it was it went off a cliff for sure. It did. But, Mike, we so again, not to relitigate Supergirl, go back and check out that episode on the YouTube channel, or you can find it on any podcast platform if you want to listen as well. But we are here tonight to celebrate a couple of birthdays, if you will, because Rocky, the original Rocky film, turns 50. Right and Sly Stallone had just turned 80 yesterday, actually, as of this recording of this episode. So we thought that was a fitting opportunity to do a review on Rocky. And as I said to you, Mike, this is actually our first Sylvester Stallone review on the Which shocked me a little bit. Which is hard to believe because, you know, I'm I'm a huge Stallone fan. Like, you can't do wrong by me. Now, what I was interested to find, Mike, was I have I only have two copies of Rocky on physical media. One is the one we both just held up, which is one of the Blu-ray versions of it. And this is the box set that has all the different uh Rocky's and then the booklet here, this uh what do you call this Digi Book? Digi Books. Digi Book, yeah, which I love. I think you got me this as a gift one year. Probably. I think that's a good idea. And this has got yeah, this is a beautiful set. It's got a great booklet, which I've read and uh and it's very, you know, I've kept it in pristine condition, of course. But I watched the film with my digital copy that I have. Was that 4K? It was, and it had that has extras on it, whereas the neither of these have any supplemental material, which is kind of depressing.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

But and and yeah, I don't know why they did this. They released the first four films on 4K, and then they did a second release with you know Rocky through Rocky Balboa. You know, so it had all of them, and it had one disc that was an extra for the first four films. So I I don't understand that, the reasoning behind that.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Is this how you watched it? Was the Blu-ray copy, this this version here?

SPEAKER_04 6:46

I have the Blu-ray box, but like I do oftentimes, I flip out switched out to 4K. Yeah, they're 4K's.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Okay, okay. So now, Mike, is there now again, this came out Rocky came out December 3rd, 1976. Right. And again, we're also celebrating Sly's birthday here, his 80th birthday. But Mike, can you think of is this the greatest underdog story in film history?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Well, it's certainly one of the most inspirational of all time. I think AFI has it number four. And as you like to say, this is a perfect movie. It is. There's nothing and I I'll find a couple of things, but there's almost nothing wrong with this movie from start to finish. And what shocked me, having not seen it probably in a decade.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

I watched like the Drago recut and some of the other stuff, but I hadn't watched the original in at least ten years.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Wow, that's crazy. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

And what shocked me was how quickly the director got to the emotion of the film and the characters. A few, you know, notes on the piano and a great shot, and you're you start like, oh my God, this is emotional.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Let's let's first set this up, Mike, with some some quick facts, okay? And feel free to, you know, comment further on these as I mentioned them. So we're talking about and and you can talk about the you know, 1975, 76 versus today's money. But here's and there's a there's a reason behind this we know, and you can again feel free to elaborate, but a budget of less than a million dollars. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Okay, which even at that time, it was they in fact the uh producers, Erwin Winkle and Winkler and the other guy.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Close enough. And Chardoff, yeah, close enough.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

And Chardoff, they had to mortgage their houses to get the final hundred grand to get this made.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

And you find out, like, there's three commentaries on the first disc.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

One just alone, one with the two producers, and one with kind of everybody.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Which I didn't have. I didn't have any of that, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:21

So you you'll you're gonna have to get the 4K box because they're really good.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yes. But before you get too deep in into that, so less than a million dollar budget shot in around 28 days.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Right. Which is significant because when you think of this movie, you think of Philadelphia, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

The the stairs, the the running by the boat, the whole thing. You know, only six of those days were shot in Philadelphia. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

That's it. Well, and then there's more to the story of the the filming in Philadelphia and elsewhere when we talk about guerrilla filmmaking, which I'll have you comment on that in a second. So the shooting time, again, about 28 days they wrap. Uh, we've got, you know, you've got a lot of real people in the film, and I'll have you comment on that. Again, you're talking about filming in Philadelphia and elsewhere, but no permits, no licenses, just kind of like under the cover of darkness, trying to get shots when they could. And Mike, the film Stallone writes it in about three days. In about three days. So d dive a little deeper into those elements of the making, getting this thing made.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Yeah, the gorilla aspect of it is when you don't get permits, you don't, you know, get rights or whatever, you just shoot and hope you don't get caught and the police don't come up and say. Which is kind of funny when you think about it. When because we were like the first people to have like an eight millimeter, which comes into play here a different kind of eight millimeter. I'm not talking the real to real. Right. I'm talking eight millimeter cassette.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

And when we used to be out filming little stuff here and there, people thought we were filming something for real. Like they didn't know, because nobody had a video camera when we did.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

So that was a big thing, plus the extras. There was so many unknowns to the film. Stallone was unknown. Everybody, the biggest known character was Adrian, because she was in the father.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Well, well, that that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

I was going to say Burgess Meredith, but Yeah, Burgess Meredith, and and I'll get into who could have been those characters.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Exactly. One of the segments here we're on the brother podcast.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Yeah. And and it's it's kind of interesting because I cannot see anyone else in these roles.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Well, and neither could Sly, and that is one of the most fascinating things about this film, is that the parallel between and again I want you to dive into this for the listeners and the and the viewers, is the parallel between his actual life at this point and the character of Rocky. I mean, there's so there's this symbiotic sort of thing going on between the two.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

And he talks about it in the extras where he talks about how, you know, getting his shot, you know, that this was his shot. It might have failed, but it didn't, but at least he got the shot. Where some people never take the shot. And they don't find out, hey, did I have it? Could I have done it? He finds out in pretty spectacular fashion.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

In this booklet in the Blu-ray uh digi book I held up, Mike, this sums it up right here, this quote.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

Yeah.

unknown 13:08

Right?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

It's I can't read it. So you It says, I just can't look in the mirror and go, what if, right? Because that was the whole thing. He he just had an instinct, an intuition about if I don't hold out, because they kept offering him more money. The studio kept upping the ante. Because they wanted him out. They wanted him out. They were paying to get him out, basically. Yeah. And they were getting close to like $400,000, which to him at that time would have completely changed his life, at least for a time, right? You're talking about he sold his dog at this point, right? But in the film, credited at the end of the film. So he's he's about as down and as luck as you can get, which is again exactly what we see in the character of Rocky. So I I think you can't overstate that enough. The the sort of which is why I think the film works, right? And why, again, I think he held out because he knew nobody else was going to be able to infuse the weight and the drama and the impact and the power of that lived experience that he had himself.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yeah, and inter uh, you know, I was talking about eight millimeter. Adelson, the director who directed this in Rocky V, he talked about shooting them, him and Carl Weathers, yeah, on an eight millimeter camera, that like a reel-to-reel kind of camera.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 14:37

And he would give them reels to watch. And Stallone had a bit of a waistline issue that he focused on.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 14:47

And he wanted them to see what it looked like. So they could, you know, and then he said to Stallone, I want you to write. Because there was two choreographers on the payroll.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Mike, these were guys who had done every major boxing film up to this point, right?

SPEAKER_04 15:10

And they wind up, I think it was over money, right? That they walked.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Well, no, I think it well, I no, I think it was really Stallone's persistence regarding the way that the fighting was being depicted, the way that they were choreographing it. He didn't feel that it really represented, which is kind of ironic, but I don't know that these guys were actual fighters. I can't recall that detail, but it had more to do with that, I think. And it could have also been maybe some money there, but I think it was more that I'm thinking I heard in the c one of the commentaries.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

Well, doesn't everything come down to that eventually, but but in the credits, Stallone is credited as being the choreographer. That's right. And what he did is he took those eight millimeter tapes, went home, came back the next day with 30 pages worth of notes.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

You know, punch here, punch here. And you see this on the eight millimeter, him and Carl Weathers. Like how they how they got through it. And we've talked about fighting before and how exhausting it is on your arms.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yeah, I've got my gloves up.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

These guys you know, and and I forgot the days of 15 round fights.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah. Listen, I'll tell you, just get in the ring for a couple of rounds. One round. Yes, it's exact. If you're in there with someone who's an actual technician and knows what they're doing, it's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's crazy. Yeah. It's some of the best conditioning you could ever undertake. I mean, it it's it's really phenomenal. So yeah, you gotta have mad respect for obviously real fighters, men and women, but also, you know, Carl and Sly in there acting it out to to get that realism, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

And Stallone points out that the the opening shot of him fighting Spider Rico in that first fight. Yeah, that was the last thing they shot. So he said, you know, in the commentary, he said, I was in my best shape right now.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

And the same thing, like there's the famous everybody knows the scene of him running up the steps. They could not get extras to run up the steps. Yeah. Two or three kids ran with them, so they just cut him out.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

The funny, funny story about that, the Stone talks about, like, he originally had Butkus, who's a gorilla of a dog. Right. And they, you know, the again, this gorilla filmmaking, they just kind of pull up to the Philadelphia Art Museum steps. And one of the first attempts was him with the dog running up. He's like, okay, scrap that idea, because there's no way I can make it up and downstairs with that dog, you know.

SPEAKER_04 18:12

But the and the other interesting thing is the fact that when he first attempts it, he's struggling to make it to the top. You know, he he's huffing and cramping and yeah. And at the end of the film, he's up and he's, you know, jumping around. Those were shot within an hour of each other, which is hard to believe.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Right. It is, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And there was a lot of those things, right? It it these, you know, what now we consider to be classic cinema, this montage of him training for the fight against Apollo Creed is just little bits that they filmed haphazardly here and there as they were going through Philadelphia and elsewhere. Now, what were some of the other shooting locations? Because honestly, I thought it was filmed all in Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Well, no, was it in some New York? New York. Okay. And funny because there's a sequence where he's sitting at a desk, okay, and they're in New York. So they had to bring down this tarp of Philadelphia, and it was very windy that day.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

So they had to hold down the tarp so you wouldn't see it floating.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

It was like in Winkler or one of the producers' offices, I think, like real offices, is where that scene was shot. In New York, yeah. I believe, yeah. You mentioned John Avelton, the director, and of course, it was written by Sly. Right. And you mentioned, you refer to Adrian, of course, was famously played by Talia Shire, who was, as you mentioned, already coming off the godfather of both of them. The first of him. Yeah, one and two, that's right. The great Bert Young. You know, this is what's interesting. So Talia Shire, by the way, had just recently had a birthday back in April, so happy belated to Talia. Bert Young, the late great Bert Young, who plays Polly, his ultimately would become his brother-in-law. You know, he died, Mike, just back in 2023. Bert Young passed away. Yeah, I know it hadn't been that long. And and Carl Weathers, we lost even more recently in February of 2024. Of course, played Apollo Creed and then Burgess Meredith. You know, my earliest memories obviously are the reruns of the Batman TV show. Right. When he played the penguin. Yeah, right. You can't win rock. Remember, we used to do that mashup. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

And I always think of uh the Twilight Zone because he's in set, he's in a great episode called The Librarian, where they they determine librarians are not useful to society, so they're going to eliminate them. And he fights, you know. People uh people that know the Twilight Zone will know that episode.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

I go from that, it's kind of a sandwich for me. It's it's it's penguin, and then I quickly go to Grumpy, Grumpy Old Men with, you know, Lemon and Mathow is just classic Burgess Meredith.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

But didn't he like die during the filming of the second one?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

Or very soon there.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Very soon after, because they have him die in the second one, spoiler alert. In Grumpier Old Men. Right. He actually passes away. Yeah, the character. Mike, I want to quickly, we're talking about the Godfather, and I want to talk about another god. There's two godfather connections in the film. Right. Because Rocky, talk a little bit about who Rocky is when we first meet him in the film.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

He's basically uh a collector, you know, for a mob guy.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

What's it okay? He's like a label like type.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

Like people bet with this bookie. And if they don't pay off, he sends Stallone to go break their, you know, knuckles or fingers or whatever, which he can't bring himself to do because he's amazing guy.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

That's right. He works for this character named Gazzo, who's played by Joe Spinel, who also famously plays Willie Chichi. Willie Chee. Chichi the door. Chi Chi the Door. He was Frankie Five Angels, good reference. He was in, he was uncredited in the first Godfather, and he had a more prominent role in the sequel ultimately. But he's great in this as Gazzo. I really liked him. But you know, that's important to touch on, I think, here with the character of Rocky is that the original iteration was really had him as a more unlikable character. You know, I think Talia Shire had read the script, or his wife at the time, uh Stallone's wife at the time. And I think some others had read it, and they're like, he's not a real likable character. You got to do something about this. So he ends up, you know, doing some rewrites and softens him a little bit, but that's also where he brings in the characters of Polly and Mickey. Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

And, you know, when you watch the the big fight at the end with Apollo and Rocky, you like both these guys because they're so it's it's almost like watching wrestlers because they're so good. You know, Carl Weathers is a perfect Muhammad Ali type. You know, where he's always John Adam. And I think it's a lot of people. Talk about the inspiration there, Mike. For his character? For Stallone, it was Rocky Marciano.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Well, no, I'm talking about the the the Ali Webner fight. Oh. You remember, you remember the Chuck Webner fight? That was really he watches Ali fighting Webner, who was an unknown kind of similar, right? And that is really a big part of the inspiration. You know, in terms inspiration for him to write the story around a fighter, because originally it wasn't going to be that. So that really is what inspires him to write it as Rocky's a boxer, right? A down on his left fighter, pugilist, if you will.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

And this is also the first sports film to win an Oscar.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Nominated Mike for 10 Oscars, wins three, and let me let me comment on that. So it won three best picture, best editing, best directing. Now, 1976, Mike, at the Oscars was no shabby year. They were up against Taxi Driver. Right. They were up against Bound for Glory, all the president's men. Wow. And also, Mike, Network, which Mike, I just watched for the first time last night.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

You're kidding me.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

I just picked up the 4K of Network. I so having now seen that, yeah. And having and and and knowing that Rocky took Best Picture, wow. I mean, that's a plus all the president's men. I I mean I saw that in junior high school.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

That is a phenomenal film with Hoffman and and uh Dustin Hoffman and that's you know, if you want to be educated on Watergate, they do their homework, the writers of that film. It's three hours.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

But there's an important note here, I think, Mike, and tell me if you agree and and you know, feel free to comment on it is Stallone even says, you know, the films at that time leading up to Rocky were all very sort of anti-government and anti-establishment and anti-this and that. And he really wanted to bring back something that was more rooted in morality and a hopeful inspirational character. You think about Taxi Driver and Network. Mike, Network, by the way, that film could come out today and be just as relevant as it was in 1976. It was phenomenal. Faye Dunaway, William Holden, uh, just uh Duvall, another godfather reference.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

Did you just watch that?

SPEAKER_00 26:13

I bought it. It was five bucks.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

You did buy it.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

I bought it on Apple TV, 4K, had some extras, and I'm like, I've been wanting to watch it for years. Oh. It's another that should be an installment in the Old Brother Podcast. Classic films Dan hasn't seen yet.

unknown 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

And so I finally started watching it and I couldn't stop watching it. I was riveted by it. And and we'll we'll have to do uh an episode either on that or a maybe a Criterion episode. That or Sidney Lamette or something, because it's worth it. But but you know, you think about those films that that it was up against, and they were all very much of that kind of ilk, that that sort of anti-establishment sort of thing. And so I think I think that's a big part of why Rocky, not that it's not a great film for so many reasons, but I think that's one of the big reasons why it takes home the Oscar for Best Picture.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Yeah, and Stallone, although there's an extra that you probably saw with him holding the Oscar, saying, Hey, we he doesn't get credit for that Oscar. Even though he wrote it, you know, he didn't direct the first one, he directed the next three. The producers he doesn't have a he does not have an Oscar for this film. And because of that, like there's all these rights issues. He doesn't get any money from the Rocky films. But why doesn't why doesn't I mean he has that statue and it's like why you know it's it's some technicality, like only so many people can produce. There's some technicality that that prevented them from giving him an Oscar for even though it won best pitcher and it's his picture.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah, so well and he and he went on to direct all of the sequels except Rocky V.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Stallone did, which was Stallone did done by Advilson, who did this one.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah, it it's here's an interesting note about Stallone too, Mike. He's I I believe only one of two actors to have a number one box office film over six decades. Wow. Which which is because you think about it, he's got the Rocky franchise, the Rambo franchise. You could you could argue the Expendables, among other things. Do you know who the other actor is that would fit in that category?

SPEAKER_04 28:41

I can't think of off the top of my head. Harrison Ford. Wow. See, I was thinking Pacino, De Niro, somebody like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

But you think of franchises. Yeah, and you think of like Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Jack Ryan and you know, all of those. Yeah. Now, also, he was only one of three to win best screenplay and and be nominated, I think, for best screenplay and best actor, Mike, in the company of Charlie Chaplin and Morrison Wells. Right. Which is pretty nice company. It's pretty phenomenal. Let me ask you about this too, Mike. It's, you know, we talked at the beginning about the shoestring budget, relatively speaking, and what it went on to gross worldwide, which is over a hundred million bucks. It certainly made more in Supergirl, we can say that. Right. But you think of some other now I can't think of another film that has what this has, which is again this parallel between Stallone's actual life and this character in the film and the success of both, right, in the franchise going on and so forth. But what I what it did make me think about is other films that were made for essentially peanuts and had some guerrilla filmmaking and so forth, it went on to become very successful, to become classics. For example, Mike, John Carpenter's Halloween, which we often talk about on the podcast. Right. Clerks, Mike, Kevin Smith, that would launch his career, essentially. That's right. That's right. He basically sold his comic book collection and put some of the money on a credit card to get that film done. And then the Blair Witch Project. All the film all of those films were revolutionary in their own way, and bring it to current day, and it makes me think about these two horror films, one in particular, Obsession, which was done by Curry Barker, who, Mike, was a YouTube guy. And that's out right now, isn't it? That's out right now. Mike, so let real quick, quick little side tangent here. Curry Barker was a YouTube sketch comic who had a short film called The Chair that came out in 2023, which is what leads him to getting an offer to make this into a feature film called Obsession. And Mike, the film Obsession, I thought you'd love this note, was based loosely, you know, somewhat influenced by The Simpsons, The Treehouse of Horror 2.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Well, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

If you can think about what the storyline was for that. The budget, Mike, on Obsession, $750,000, okay? It is the seventh highest grossing film of 2026. It's made over $400 million.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

That's nuts. And they were going to take it out of the theater, but it was doing so much money, they were like, no.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

And I cannot wait because you know that's going to be one of the first things we reviewed this Halloween fest on the O'Brother Podcast. I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

I was thinking the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah. But again, none of those are had this parallel going on between the artist and the owner.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

I think if I thought about this, I would come up with somebody that that sort of fits. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

And and for those watching or listening, they certainly people are screaming at the at you know at us right now. What about so-and-so, you idiots? Exactly. Much like the Supergirl commentary. But so drop some comments on the video. Uh or if you're listening, there's a link in the show notes. You can send us a message that way, too.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

The other thing is there were three films this year in '76 that used the steady cam.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Right? Which was a new thing. It wasn't even referred to as the steady cam, yeah. Correct. And the guy that, you know, invented it, they show him running up the stairs and doing all his stuff with it. Still use today. I mean, sporting events are filmed with Steady Cam.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Revolutionary.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

So, you know, I don't know if Rocky was the first.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

I know there was three films that year. I I think it was. I believe it was. And, you know, we should, along with that, mention the DP, the cinematographer James Crabe, who, again, is as well he's passed away a long, long time ago, not long after the film, maybe, maybe in the early 80s, I think. He was also the the DP on Karate Kid 2 and China Syndrome. You know, you you have to. This is one of those films where you can't separate those elements, right? It it's the the look of the film, that the kind of gritty realism of the streets of Philadelphia as it's portrayed, the lighting. It it's some of the luck they got.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

For instance, Talia Shire play being so mousy and shy. She had a cold that whole opening sequence. So it made her kind of withdraw even more than she usually would have. And there's that the famous scene of him, hey, sit down here, Adrian, on my couch. You know, it's uh yeah, it's not a bad couch, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

And he's covering up the holes with paper. Rocky in the Sopranos, Mike's like, bada bing over here, Adrian.

SPEAKER_04 34:26

But, you know, she winds up sitting down, and then, you know, this really awkward first kiss that's so believable. She didn't want to get him sick.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Okay. Oh, see, yeah, I I think I forgot that detail. That's funny. But you're right. It's you it you believe it from you believe everything about the characters, not just Rocky, Adrian, Polly, Mick, all of them. And you believe everything about this world that they've built, this environment they're in. Frankly, because a lot of it was real. Like it was just things happening, people in the background were like real people. They weren't cast, they weren't extras, they weren't getting paid.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Yeah. A couple of my favorites were the apartment. They didn't dress that. That was what it looked like.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Well, but that's dirty and grungy. It's also, I think, I think it was a lot uh pretty close to what I think Stallone's apartment probably looked like at that time, I believe. He said his was even smaller. Yeah, you know what's what I want to, you know, when you talk about that sequence with the first time that Adrian he he convinces Adrian to come inside his apartment, because you know, she's very sort of very sweet and innocent character and and so forth. And so, but he eventually, you know, coerce not coerces her, but he convinces her to come in. And when he asks her, as you talk about that one little sequence where he says, you know, you want to come over here and sit down, the couch, because it's got like holes in it and the cottons coming out and stuff, he's got it covered with newspapers. Yes. But but what is so endearing about Rocky is he's not shameful about it. You know, he I find that it's very, I think people, it's so relatable, right? It's so relatable. Everybody's got a struggle, everybody's got a story, whether whether you're in that struggle now or you went through that struggle to get to where you are, unless you, you know, were born with a silver spoon, I suppose. But that's like the that I find very endearing about his character.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

And and to piggyback on that, when when Mick goes to his house to try to tell him I want to be your manager, Rocky finally, you know, has a backbone and says, Yeah, you you only want me now because I got this title shot. You didn't want me before. Get it. And then they, you know, he goes to leave and Stallone thinks he left, but he had to go back for his hat.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

And they make eye contact, and it's so awkward and so believable.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

It is, and there's a lot going on there from an acting standpoint that you wouldn't believe when you're talking about Burgess Meredith. In fact, they comment on it in one of the the supplemental materials where he he's going to leave, as you say, and he remembers he left his hat, and he does something, he does this very subtle movement with his head, and it just speaks volumes about what he's feeling and thinking in that moment and everything. And, you know, I I this is one of the things I wanted to ask you about because I don't I I'm curious as to how the listeners and viewers think about this too. But as I was reflecting on those characters, particularly Polly and Mickey, aren't they really both riding on his coattails from the beginning? I I do you re do you think I certainly not from the start. Like that sequence, Mickey's got his own self-interest at heart. He doesn't care about rocking.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

And Polly, I don't think so either, because Polly's trying to get him to get in with the mobster so he can, you know, earn some money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Because Polly's working at a meat packing plant. Right. And he doesn't like that life. And he wants to, you know, he he feels like he's you know owed more in life. But but I feel like that never changes. I I'm not sure that that ever changes unless you might argue that there's a certain point, whether it's in the first Rocky or sometime in one of the sequels, where both of those characters, like so many, ultimately do come to believe, you know what? This guy, this kid actually could win. Like this kid has a shot. Like they do genuinely believe that. But the motivation initially, to me, is very selfish, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Yeah, and if you think about Paulie, at the end of the movie, he takes Rocky's job, and you know, Rocky has spent all his money. He gives him his car. Hey, you know, you want to take over the payments? Uh, it's a nice car. I think you look good.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

But the other thing I wanted to point out about Pauli is he's swinging the bat when he's drunk in the apartment and he's yelling at Adrian. Yeah, there he is, Bert Young. And there's a picture of him in a naval uniform. Now, ironically, he was a Marine and he was a boxer, and and he he fought like 34 fights. I think he won 32 of them.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

You can tell. You can tell.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Yeah, and but the the picture of him in the Navy outfit is from another movie he had done. Okay. I'm surprised it's so fitting.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

As a Marine, you know, as our dad was. I'm surprised he he let them put that in there.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

But yeah, it's there's the you know, the emotional beats. Early on, Mike, you talked about this little kind of piano score that we hear. You cannot it would be a disservice, not only to this artist, but to the film, to not talk about the importance of Bill Conti's score for this film. It is one of the greatest scores in cinema history. And, you know, you mentioned you hadn't seen it in 10 years. I watched the film, I was still crying at certain parts. It still gets to me to this day because again, I think it's so relatable, the themes are so relatable and still topical and the music matches the person so perfectly in the mood.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

It does. I can't think of another film that just four notes.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Right. And it has all of the whether it's despair or or hopefulness or you know, triumph over adversity, whatever it is. And you know, Conti's score originally, can you talk a little bit about like how he had to continue to sort of add on to it when because of the montage and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_04 41:18

Yeah, it's the the big fight at the end. They kept coming back and saying, we want 30 more seconds. We need 30 more seconds. And he had to keep expanding it because it was literally, it started at like a minute and a half and winds up at three and a half minutes.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, it was like this training montage, too, that that Rocky's going through. And so Avilson is like, Can you we're gonna need another 30 seconds? Can you do so? There's all these little variations on the on the primary theme that you hear throughout. They're haunting at times, and they're very uh incredibly, of course, inspirational at times as well.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Right. And and it makes you feel sad. You you feel bad for Rocky. You just met this character. We got no reason to feel bad for him, yet somehow it comes across with Stallone's body and those few notes. It just it it's unlike any other film emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Yeah, I can't and Stallone you know I've always argued this. I mean, people may still not give him, certainly there's those that don't give him his due, but he's a legitimate actor. This guy's got dramatic acting chops, and I've said it all you have to do to go back to First Blood. And the the just the ending monologue in that film alone is he should have won an Oscar for that.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

Yeah, he barely has any dialogue.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

He doesn't until that yeah, that final sequence with Troutman. But but but then you like Copland and there's so many other you look what he's doing now on Tulsa King, you know, is he's phenomenal. How relevant he has remained over the decades.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

And Advilson, one of the amazing things he had to do, because they're in the spectrum in Philadelphia that holds 8,000 somewhere around there.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

I never got to see a show there, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

And they had to do these tight shots because there was no crowd. They couldn't get any people. There were like 50 people. And when Rocky's up on the ring and he's being heckled, Stallone points out, you can if you listen, you can hear me heckling myself. We had nobody to do it. So I did it. And then there's the the the young girl that he's trying to like give a pep talk to. You don't want to be known as this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Well, he says I'll say he says a whore is what he says. Right. It even prefaces it. He's such a good character. He even says, Okay, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say a dirty word. Right. And then he says it. Yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

And she says at the end of it, screw you, Rock. And that wasn't supposed to be the line. The line was F you Rock. But if they kept it in, it would have changed the rating. One word.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

That's interesting. That's interesting. Let me now, Mike, here's a film that is a runtime of two hours and 25 minutes. Does this feel like a film that's two hours and 30 minutes long?

SPEAKER_04 44:26

In fact, I didn't look at the runtime.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

You didn't never catch it.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

I thought it was like 90 minutes, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Now, I do want to talk about one additional cast member here, Mike, Tony Burton, who plays a character, he would come to be credited as Duke, who is starts out in the franchise as the cornerman for Apollo. Right. This guy, great actor, first of all. Yeah. But there's a sequence in the film where, you know, there's this whole thing where, and it isn't a fitting, right? Here we are just coming off the 250th anniversary of our country's independence and everything. And that is the whole backdrop for the fight, is Apollo is trying to set up this bicentennial, right, match, right? And he said, what what what better matchup to have but this local underdog fighting the champion and so forth? And there's a sequence where Apollo's in his office and he's talking to his manager and some other people about, you know, prepping for the fight. And I want this and I want media here and I want an article done on this or whatever. Because he's only worried about the spectacle of it all, right? And and Duke is in the background watching footage of Rocky at Paulie's workplace punching meat. Meat. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's a really intense sequence. And Apollo's paying no attention. At one point, Duke says, he the with the shot Mike Avaldson has on Duke in that sequence, watching Rocky, he's like, you can tell Duke is like, this kid concerned. He's concerned because he's like, this kid, first of all, you know he's got nothing to lose, but when he sees the lengths he's going through to train and so forth, and punching these ribs that are hanging or whatever, he says to Apollo, hey, uh Apollo Champ, right, as they call him, I think you should come take a look at this guy. And Apollo just kind of shrugs it off and says, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. I'll I'm gonna drop him in three. Like just not giving him any attention whatsoever, which would come to be obviously a wake-up call for Apollo in what was it, like the first round of the fight, I think, is when he gets knocked out by Rocky. Yeah, and he starts getting at his ribs which you know, no shock.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

They're both got multiple injuries from the, you know, the fake fight. Right, right. You know, cracked ribs. Stallone's knuckles to this day, I think, are flat from punching the meat. Right, right. You would never like when I watched that was the one scene I'd like, no one would ever do that. Because it's got it would break your hand.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

You shouldn't be using your knuckles when you're punching your meat, anyways. But but okay, I I digress. But but yeah, it's that sequence. By the way, uh Carl Weathers, right up until his passing, top ten physique ever. I mean, this guy was is a s was a specimen then and continued to be in amazing shape. So again, it it it it le it it le lends itself to the believability of him as the heavyweight champion here. He looked apart. He really did look the part. But the important point here that I want to bring up is this whole thing, the whole story, the whole point, the whole takeaway from this film and this character, and for Rocky himself, as he points out, Mike, in the film, in some of the dialogue, was all about not winning, it was about going distance. And that is something that has held true in the franchise all the way through. It's not about winning, it's about proving you can go the distance, which is what Chuck Webner did in that fight against Ali. He took Ali the distance.

SPEAKER_04 48:42

In fact, when I watched it, you can't hear them announce, you know, the announcing is in the background. He's yellow, yo, Adrian. Yeah. In the background, they're like, we have a split decision. But it's not clear who won the fight. And it doesn't matter to Rocky. He doesn't care. He's just screaming for Adrian and in a famous line, you know, not gonna be not gonna be any uh rematch. I don't want one.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

That's right. You know, that's right. Which would of course go on to not be true as we get the sequel, but which picks up with the ending of this film. Yeah. But I, you know, uh this like you said, Mike, at the start, for me, it's a great, it's a perfect film. Now, but but I have to say, on that point, we would be remiss if we did not quote the two, you know, leading ratings sites. Oh, yeah, yeah. IMDB, please comment on this, Mike. IMDB score, let me say them both and then I'll have a comment. IMDB met a score of 70. Rotten Tomatoes Critics scored 93. There we go. Audience, Mike, Rotten Tomatoes, 69%. Please comment.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

How does that have a 69%? That's why it's so tough to give them merit. It is. Because something like that, and you know, of course, Roger Ebert, perfect hundred. So he certainly wasn't, you know, affecting that scale. But wow.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Wow, right. That that's just that that's craziness.

SPEAKER_04 50:24

So you want to know who the studio wanted?

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Yeah, I wasn't gonna I would far be it from me to take away from from your segment here on the Oprah of the podcast. So so who could what do we call this? Who could who it could have been? Who could have been Rocky?

SPEAKER_04 50:39

Or who the studio preferred.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Who could have been? Well, that's true. That's a good uh note to make, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

Robert Redford. Cannot see him.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Ryan O'Neill, big star at the time. Can't see him either. Burt Reynolds. Not really. Nick Nolte and James Kahn.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

James Kahn, I kind of I could see, you know, but he's the big he's the the only one you don't have to stretch that far. Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Because he he had such a who probably could have really knocked out Apollo Creed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

He was Mickey was going to be. He was actually signed, was Lee Straussberg. Which a lot of people think he's the greatest living American actor of all time.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Now who was in The Godfather. Yes. Right? He was in the sequel. He was in the sequel. He played uh Hyman Roth. Hyman Roth, yeah. Yeah, with that weird when he was ill and he was making that noise, which still bothers me to this day.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

There was somebody for telling you Shire. I don't think I wrote it down. Really? Yeah, for some reason I didn't write it down. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Now, if for some reason this is not true, then somebody correct the record for us. But I think I was myself always under the impression that at a certain period Sly and Talia were a couple. They weren't. They weren't.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

I think that's a testament to their relationship in this franchise. Yeah, like I thought they really were married in real life. I yeah. And then they couple divorced over the course of the the the C but no, no, no such truth.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

Yeah. He has three pretty lengthy marriages. One for 10 years, and Brigitte Nielsen for Brigitte Nielsen, yeah, which you know he might like to and then his current life wife he's been with 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

That's right. Yeah, that's right. And they they had a little bit of a blip, and then they came back to each other. And you listen, I love Stallone. Uh he's he's one he's one celebrity actor, artist, what have you, that I would still love to meet. He now I will say we do have a connection to the Rocky franchise, Mike. And way back when, I forget the year exactly without looking it up, but when Rocky V came out, yes, you and I, uh, we were both living in Florida at the time, and we had the good fortune, this must have been around 1990, I think, we had the good fortune to go see a premiere of the film out at Pleasure Island at the time, which is now people would know as Disney Springs. Right. And we got to meet the Tommy Morrison, who's a legit contender back then. And couldn't have been a nicer guy. Remember, we it was weird because the setup, he was in, he was in the he was watching the film with us, but we met him, it was actually outside on the sidewalk there, outside the theater, I remember. And I I had forgotten to get out my all my Rocky V merch that we had him sign and stuff, because I still have that to this day. But super nice guy. You know, he has since left us, but uh that was a little bit of an open other connection.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

His fame was kind of tarnished because he wound up having AIDS.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_04 54:23

And they wouldn't let him fight.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Yeah. He did end up fighting. I think he did end up fighting. He did. And after that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

You know, they they kind of figured it out that, you know, you couldn't like when AIDS first exploded, you know, it was it was so wildly misunderstood as how it was transmitted and all these different things. And they went overboard. Remember, Magic Johnson. I remember when he announced he was HIV positive, and I I might have said this to you at the time. Yeah. I said, he's gonna be dead in like a year. Like that's what you thought when you heard somebody was HIV positive.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Well, I mean, he probably thought that at that time. You know, we didn't, you know, I mean we didn't know. He quit.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

I remember that press couple and they changed the rules. Like if a player was bleeding, they have to stop the game.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

And how a quick little again, quick side note. How is that not one of our most amazing memories? Is to see him shoot up that, what was it, like a three-point shot the All-Star game in Orlando over Isaiah Thomas, no less. God, what a great shot was his last shot was a career. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

Because I I don't know why, but people turned on him. Even Lakers fans at the end were like, we don't want you.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

I think it's an ignorance and a bias and a prejudice, and dedicated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

He, you know, it was it was weird because he didn't play enough games to be in the all-star game, but they made an exception for him.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Yeah, thankfully for us. And yeah, we got to see it. That was, you know, we got to meet Dr. J and MC Hammer and all these other people back then.

SPEAKER_04 56:17

Tell me more before we leave that, I gotta say this last point. The ring, the guy that did the ring bell. I swear it was Bob Coozie.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Really? In Rocky. Famous Celtic. Yeah. Who we also met.

SPEAKER_04 56:31

Yeah, we met a man with Tommy Heinzon.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yeah. That's right. I didn't really pay Heinzon much attention. I was going right for Coosie. Yeah, Tommy, Mike, Tommy died in 2013. I can't believe he's been gone that many years. And he was in the middle of the day. Mike, 44 years old. No, no, Tommy Morrison, I'm talking about. Tommy Morrison. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 56:55

Yeah, he died.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

He wound up dying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:58

Not wasn't the aide, right? It was something else.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

What was his relationship to John Wayne? Wasn't he like a grand, like a nephew or grandfather?

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Yeah, there was some Nepo thing in there. He was related to him.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Yeah. Yeah. And that, and I was right, Rocky V came out in 1990. So, anyways, just a little connection there between us and the franchise. But Rocky, perfect film. We gotta get this, we gotta get this rot tomato score up, folks. I've dropped my own rating in there just to try to influence that a little bit. But again, it it just it's about to turn in December. It will turn 50 years old. It's as good today as it ever was. And Stallone himself just turned 80, Mike. And he's as active as he's ever been, right? And this is one of the, you gotta say, one of the most versatile actors in cinema history. He's done everything.

SPEAKER_04 57:51

If if there's somebody out there watching this that didn't like Rocky, I'd I'd love to know why.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:58

I I don't know how you cannot like this film.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

No, for me it's a 10 out of 10. So I'm I'm glad. I couldn't believe that we didn't already cover this, but I'm uh I'm super stoked that we that we did. You can get you know, you can get it online. It's probably streaming in a lot of places. And uh but again, this is one without reservation, I would say go pick up a copy of it if you're into physical media or you know, order it on on digital because it's definitely worth it for sure. Yep. Anything else, Mike, here that you want to you want to note on the Rocky before we wrap this up.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

This was just a lot of fun. I I had to watch the second one. I it was just I had to do it. I couldn't not watch that second one.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

It was hard because we did talk about because it would have been easy to go down throughout the franchise and get on that rabbit hole. I stayed true. Rocky, and that was it.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

Now I did watch it a couple of times, but um, I didn't I did too, because I listened to the one of the con there's two commentaries I haven't heard.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Well, you're better than me too. I can't if I had watched the other ones, I would have started having trouble separating the facts and the different storylines and so forth. But it and if you haven't seen Rocky, where have you been? Yeah it's been you've had 50 years. Like get on board here and watch it. So, well, there you go, Mike. I'm still trying to find a decent, you know, gym close by where I can get these gloves back on and try to get that that boxing fitness back underway. But uh yeah, great film. Love still land.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

You can't win rack.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Yeah. That's so good. All right, that's gonna do it, Mike, for the uh Rocky 50th anniversary celebration here on the O Brother Podcast. Now, Mike, we're gonna be in just a couple of weeks as of this recording. We are it's been hot and cold, but I'm pretty sure we're gonna end up at Comic-Con. Speaking of fighting.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

We got to say it up front for the people that don't make it to the end.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

But I didn't, yeah, people click off, and I want to get right into the meat of what we were talking about. But yeah, we're gonna be at San Diego Comic-Con this year, Mike. First time for me. You've been there and as attendee uh several times in the past, but but it's also been quite a long time for you as well. So um it's a homecoming of sorts because, of course, you spent many, many years and and more than a couple of decades in San Diego. We've never been in that city and state together.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

I was there over 25 years and you never visited me.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

That's funny. That's a funny fact. It's also kind of a sad fact. It is. I I that one I can't really wrap my head around. Like, why did that never come up?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:42

And there were two graduations, like law school graduation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

Never there. Nobody there. Never there.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:49

You came to Mayan.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

I came to you. But I never so there's there's a lot to be excited about to be out there, but we will be there every single day of Comic-Con. We're gonna be covering every single day uh through the lens of OBR. And, you know, we're hoping to get the full Comic-Con experience. It it's gonna be, you know, it I'm sure it's gonna be overwhelming. There's gonna be a lot there to sort of balance taking it in as a first-timer, a spectator, an attendee, but also trying to cover it for our listeners and viewers and so forth who might be interested in the coverage that we've I gotta tell you, because I talked about Hall H.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

I've mentioned Hall H on other podcasts that not Philip Baker Hall, but Hall H. Hall H is where all the big stuff goes down. And I said to you last week, I think, that I think it only holds 600 people. Uh is it like 2,000? It's 6,000. Oh my God. I was a little off.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yeah, I just don't want to be like in the 5,000th row of these things. You know, the screen is so huge. Yeah, folks, we're gonna do what we can to get you, you know, some premium coverage of it of the event. And again, we're gonna be there beginning preview night on the 22nd, all the way through the end of the event. So super excited about that. So make sure that if you're not currently following us, make sure that you do. You can go out to the O'Brother website, ohhbpodcast.com. I think, Mike, I have it. Well, you can also follow us on Instagram. We're super active on Instagram at as in Brother Podcast. Mike's holding up the website address there, too. Um, it's in the show notes, it's on the YouTube uh channel. You can, you know, make sure you like and subscribe and help get the podcast out to more and more people. We would love to have a thousand plus subscribers by the time we get out there to Comic-Con, which is in just a couple weeks. So anything you can do to help us move the needle on that effort, share the videos with your friends and uh and if you see if you're there and you see us, please come over and say hello. Without a doubt, you gotta stop us for sure. If you're and yeah, if you're gonna be out there, let us know in advance, too, so we can maybe try to hook up and and connect with you out there. But uh, Mike, Rocky in the books, first Stallone review. That's incredible. Shocking. Hopefully, not the last. I'd certainly be more than willing to come on here and do an episode on First Blood or Cobra or you name it. Uh Demolition Man, whatever it is, I'm down for Stallone. So cliffhanger, whatever it is. But that's gonna do it, Mike, for the Rocky Anniversary Edition of the Old Brother Podcast. I'm in your host, Dan Smith. Long time as always, my brother from the same mother, Mike Smith, and we will see you next time. Bye, everyone. And keep punching.