SPEAKER_02 0:00

When's the last time you went to the ER for a dislocated finger and the doctor told you to take your shirt off? I know. It's kind of stupid. Yeah. It's like, hey, okay, Mike, uh, take your pants off, and I'll be there in just a minute. Doc. And they're my finger. They don't just take your pants off. Yeah. You're listening to the O Brother Podcast. Real Brothers, Real Talk. Welcome to the O Brother Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Smith. Alongside me as always, my brother from the same other, Mike Smith.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Historic day here on the O Brother Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

It is a historic day, yeah. Of course, you're talking about D-Day here on the O Brother Podcast. Are you talking about the old man?

SPEAKER_03 0:41

The Old Man.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

The Old Man.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I think my love for film noir came from our dad because he was a big reader. Yes. And he used to read Mickey Spillane and all that kind of stuff. And there's a six degrees of Kevin Bacon with this, you know, episode because the original title that the films were, you know, made out of was called The Executioner. And when you think of that, you gotta think of the old man.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I do, but I think I think you're off slightly. Because yes, I do get the reference. And I was gonna mention that. So the the novel by John D. McDonald was the executioner's plural. Correct. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

And the books were the executioner.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

And it was different. The executioner series no correlation. Like a James. But but yeah, if you're making the point that just that that name was a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yeah, I thought it was funny. We just happened to be doing this.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

You know. He was on today's date.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

He was an avid reader.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

He was. And you know, it got to a point where it was kind of a joke because he got so far, you know, they'd be putting these things out every month.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

And he got behind. He was like fifty, fifty books behind when at the end.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

I know, you couldn't keep up. There was just so much content. You know. But but yeah, I you know, I was thinking too, uh that's interesting. I that note about him turning you on to film noir. Now we should say, because we haven't even said the title of what we're talking about, which is Cape Cape Fear, which is the Apple TV series that just came out yesterday, as of the the date we're recording this episode, June 6th, that you mentioned. And uh we got the first two episodes, pretty typical of Apple. They dropped the first two, and then I do like that they then drop it weekly. You know, you'll get the you'll get one every Friday. Yeah. Because you know, you binge it and then you start complaining about, whoa, where's the next season? Yeah. So I like that it that they imposed that on us. Well, what's your favorite?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

I like that, you know, I can go either way. There's some series that I can just like Spider Noir. I have I've still only two in. Oh, okay. So I got plenty of that to come. And then this is, you know, once a week. Your friends and neighbors just ended the second season.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Yeah, it's always good if they drop on a date that's not competing with something you're already locked into. Right. Right. Because that could be tough. But uh yeah, I'll be honest, the fact that there are we got two and they're not releasing the the remaining eight because there's ten episodes. Yeah. On until, you know, on a weekly basis, as I just described, makes no difference to me because I think I'm out. I'm two in and I'm out. I did not I did not be shocked. Yeah, I can't. You know, you had made a comment to me before we dove in and you said, you know, before we like we agreed we were gonna watch this and we were talking about the films and stuff. And and in fact, I didn't have the Cape Fear films, Mike, in my collection.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Really? I have them right there.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Mike's got them propped up behind him there in the old brother studios. And but here's the cool thing for anybody that's looking, and because we'll talk about the films maybe throughout the conversation, the 62, the 91. Mike, I was able to get both films with extras for less than 10 bucks on Apple.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Not 4K or what?

SPEAKER_02 4:03

I didn't see the resolution.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

I don't even have 4K yet.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Yeah, looking at it it must not be, but looking at the 91 film, because I took a pass through that, you know, not the entire thing, but maybe three quarters. Yeah. And it looks great. Looks great. For that money, when they've got supplemental material, you can't you can't lose.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Yeah, no, that's that's a great deal. And we should say Martin Scorsese was the director of the one with Robert De Niro.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Mike totally slipped my mind over the years that it was him. And of course, he's an executive producer on the series with Spielberg. Steven Spielberg, yeah, who's got a huge film coming out shortly with Disclosure Day. So I can't, I'm like, I to not remember that Scorsese was behind the 91 film. Yeah. Yeah, you'd think that De Niro would be a giveaway because he they've done almost every film together. But so where do we start here, Mike? Do we you want to set up uh the the the the main cast first who's playing these roles? Because again, two film iterations.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Correct. And the book. Which I've read the book. And one thing I'm not thrilled with so far is they're straying already from the source material in in the first two episodes.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yeah. Do well, do you think that okay, so you've got a book, you've got two films, which are almost these are all almost 30 years apart. Right. 29 years, which is interesting. But do you think that that's almost requisite that you've got to shake it up at this point? Like if we if this it turns out to be just a carbon copy, as the the 91 film was more so to the 62 film. You know, not exactly, but it was pretty close.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

You know, so I always use these two films to talk about how you express violence in movies. The original wasn't graphic at all, but your imagination could run with it. The Scorsese version, it was very graphic.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

It was, yeah, it was graphic. I forgot how graphic it was. Yeah and and the Apple TV series. Again, this conversation is based solely off the two episodes we've got so far. So I'm not willing to write it off yet, but uh they're giving me quite a yeah, quite a bit. Now, because yeah, what the point I was trying to make was you had made a comment like, yeah, the the series looks interesting so far. I guess you had just started it or something. Yeah. I don't know how far you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

No, I hadn't started it. I had just read the description.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Or maybe had watched the trailer or what have you.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Yeah. So I hadn't started it yet, though.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Okay. But I you know, right off the bat, you get the the the the very well-known score. That's about the only thing this has in common.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

The film negative thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah, which actually was that I think that was in the 62 film as well. I think I I don't remember from 60. Maybe maybe not. But but yeah, so let let very quickly though, because you know, you're talking about De Niro and Nick Nolte, who was great in the 91 film, but go back to 62. I mean, Robert Mitchum. I don't think you can beat Robert Mitchram and Gregory Peck. I just don't think you can. And the ratings bear that out if you compare all the ratings.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Right. And then Martin Balsam, then both, right? And Robert Mitchum is also in the Scorsese version, as is Gregory Peck. Yeah, that's right. That's right. He plays like a judge, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:35

He plays a lawyer. I think he plays an attorney still, I believe. I could be wrong. I should know that. Yeah, I can't I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

But I didn't I didn't even look at the film. So I kind of got the sense you didn't want to compare them.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Right. Well, there's there's a cameo in this, Mike. Uh there's an ER, there's a scene where Max Cady, who's the main, you know, the the main character, goes to the ER, and the guy that's playing the doctor is Wesley Strick, who was the screenwriter for the 91 film. Wow. So that was a little, you know, Easter egg. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Like, I mean, it goes back to 91. So you know, and you know, I'd love to see De Niro pop up in a cameo. That would be fun. I don't think you're gonna see that. I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

But so Max Cady in the series here we is being played by Javier Bardem. You've got Anna Bowden, the character. Now they've changed the names up a little bit. Yeah, Bowden's the same. Bowden's the same, but the first names are not. Right. So that again, why change that up?

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Amy Adams. Did I get to write Amy?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Amy Adams, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Okay. Amy Adams plays what was his lawyer. That was a in both the films, that was a male playing that role. So I think that's why they mess with the names of the club.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Well, that's a good that's a good point. Yeah. So she plays Anna Bowden. And then Patrick Wilson, you know, you get Patrick Wilson, you're like, okay, this is going to be some sort of creepy, some thriller, some psychological thing, maybe a horror film. You know, if you're getting Patrick Wilson, you figure that par for the course.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

But that's his wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, and he plays Tom Bowden. So they're married. And what's the interesting thing about that courtship, Mike? That marriage.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Well, at the time of the trial, he was the prosecutor prosecuting Max Cady. Amy Adams was the defense attorney defending him. And it turns out he didn't do it. And we haven't got the details yet in the show. But eventually we're going to find out that she buried some of the evidence. Or it sounds like they're setting it up that the two of them kind of, you know, got together and said, hey, this is a bad dude.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Right. And that's the thing about coming on. And, you know, I again, time will tell if we end up coming back to do a whole series, you know, episode uh season review. But uh but you're right, there's something going on between the two of them that that's not being, you know. And we don't know yet. We don't know what it is yet. They've got a couple of kids.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Which again goes against the novel. It was just the daughter, which was played famously by Juliet Lewis.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

In the 91 film, correct. Yep. Great performance by Juliet Lewis in in that film. Opposite De Niro is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Yeah. Ileana Douglas, another one in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yes, right. You've got Lily, I'm not sure how you say her last name, Calias plays the daughter Natalie, and then Joe Anders plays their son Zach.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Which if you notice, he's that's he's done. When you look at IMDB, it says The Sun, two episodes. CCH Pounder is in it. We love her. Yeah, from The Shield. She's only in two episodes, so she's done.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Well, we don't know that. That that we don't know that. Just because the episode guide, yeah, that that couldn't be because there's no way that they've I hope so. Right. And the sun is a pretty significant storyline here in all of this. In these first two, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

It's bizarre, but uh so creating for and obviously, Dan, Javier Bardem is playing this different all night. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Too different, I would, I would argue.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Like Mitchum set the the table. De Niro kind of built off of Mitchum, and now Javier is a little bit out there with his portrayal of the character.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Well, he just isn't. I'm sorry, but there's nothing about him that's menacing to me at all. No, nothing.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

No, so far at all. No. I imagine that's gonna change. That's one of the things I have written down that he will likely become more and more creepy.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Well, maybe it is, Mike, but there's this other character. So well, let's not get too far into it. Just can you set up the basic premise?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Yeah, it's basically this family, the Bowdens. They're both lawyers. They both I don't think they met on this case, but he was he used to be a prosecutor, now he's a defense attorney. She's a defense attorney. So they have a daughter and a son that live with them. And here they find out that Max Cady, played by Javier, has been released from jail. Without that, that's a little bit of a stretch that they wouldn't know that. Like it's really it happens, but in the legal system, it's odd that the your lawyer doesn't know you're getting out, you know. One of those one of many plot holes, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

So go ahead, go ahead, continue. And you know, I guess what we're gonna see play out is him because he's leaving subtle hints. He talks about in this bizarre, I can only call it rambling, toes and fingers and blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden the kid loses a toe.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Okay, you're you you're jumping way ahead now, so let's slow slow it down just a bit. Just a bit.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah. That's how quick it went in my memory.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah. And you know, you're getting some flashes of things that if you've seen any either of the previous films, you're getting little nuggets that will feel familiar to you, look familiar to you. But his his entrance is so anticlimatic. It it's so bizarre. We should point out that Amy Adams is working with an organization. It's like the Innocence Project, I thought of the DNA and all of this, where they get you know, wrongly convicted people out of prison.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

My my former law school has a whole department that's about that.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yeah, it's like the SJLP in the film. I I forget what it stood for, but but so she's working with this organization, and CCH Pounder is trying to generate, you know, like get some donations and funds to keep this organization thriving.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

She's almost like the Gen Zer of this. She wants hits, she wants clicks. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yeah, she's like, don't forget to like and subscribe. Yeah, right. It is kind of like that. Yeah, it is kind of like that. But and and it's and it's actually one thing I I wasn't enjoying about it, honestly. It just felt off. But nonetheless, because yeah, she seems very almost like a corporate greed kind of approach to her character.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yeah, like she wants her to hang out with Max Katie and go to dinner and be seen with them because she thinks it's gonna help the Innocence Project or whatever it's called. Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

And so they're having this big fundraiser, this big gala, this, you know, it's a big, you know, suit and tie type of event. And Katie shows up. So this is Javier's big entrance into the film, into the series.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Is giving a speech.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

She's giving a speech, and then he just was steps in slowly out of the shadows at the back of the banquet hall, you know, wherever they are. And okay, right away, Mike, this is where I'm gonna start picking major nits. He just comes in, walks. First of all, everybody's murmuring. They all know Max Cady, apparently, right? Right. He goes up, requests a mic from her. She just willingly gives him the microphone, and then he just takes over with a speech in a nice summer suit.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

It just was so stupid. That was really ridiculous. Like that would ever happen. It was so dumb.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

It were no security anywhere to be found, regardless of the guy's innocent, quote unquote, whatever. It was just totally unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Silly and he was rambling, you know, about like I didn't even understand what the hell he was talking about.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Well, so what the the thing that you mentioned with because there's two episodes, right? So the first episode is entitled Fingers and Toes. Right. The second one is Why Would I Want to Hurt You? But the Fingers and Toes reference is when he comes in and he's making this, he's rambling in the speech or whatever at the fundraiser. He's talking about how he died every day in prison, essentially, right? And you know, they they and I think he's talking about it's either metaphorical or whatever. It's metaphorical. They take, you know, they take a piece of you every day that you're in.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

6,662 cuts, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Which is in the 91 film. De Niro has a similar speech, it's much better, but yeah, yeah, this just doesn't work. It's just very this wasn't a good entrance for this character into the series.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

And then he goes into heavily into his roots and his upbringing, which really we don't need to know that. Well, I think they're trying to garnish sympathy for the sympathy for the character already. Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Which this is not a sympathetic character, folks, in neither of the films or the novel. No. So what are we what are we doing now for the case?

SPEAKER_03 16:58

You got the famous there's a famous sequence and The Simpsons spoof it. They any good movie, The Simpsons will spoof it. You know, it's Max Cady sitting in in front of them smoking a cigar, laughing at the movie. And you know, that's not in it yet. I wonder if we'll get that. Like, how far are they gonna stray? During already, well, it's weird.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

You're right. It's almost that's kind of odd because I I I almost think I would appreciate that is to see more of the same template that they use from the previous two films. And you're not really getting that here. It's very sort of on the periphery, you know. Like the whole this whole subplot with the son, talk about this. This whole weird pagan ritual that he gets involved in. Uh what is going on with the kid? So the kid, the son Zach is he he's alienated, he's alienated himself from the family. He goes up in his room, spends all day in his room gaming, supposedly, but he's he's online in one of these chat rooms talking to, we think, a girl, but we know it isn't, right? Right, right. So talk a little bit about that subplot, which is just bizarre.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Well, it's bizarre. It's like he has this fascination with Katie. Like he's kind of and he's also seeing Katie's son, like an AI-generated son that he would have had had his wife lived.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Because we kind of left that out that she's the one he's in jail for murdering.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Right, right. Well, in a in another thing here, you know, where I don't think, I think they're gonna go some other weird angle, Mike, altogether, because we've got this other for for the Halloween franchise fans out there like us, they'll get this reference. We've got this odd man in black storyline and character going on here. Uh, there's a woman in a green trench coat, trench coat with a mask. She's popping up mysteriously. I don't know what that's about.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

I don't either. And going back to him giving this rambling speech, as it turns out, he's doing that to set up an alibi because the son winds up, as I mentioned, having a toe removed. And the alibi is, well, how could if how could Max Cady have done it? He was given this speech because you just willy-nilly handed him the mic.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

And Amy Adams' character says, yeah, but he he showed up halfway through, so he he could have had time. Right. But I don't even think his character, his Max Cady, this version of Max Cady, is that calculated? I think it's I don't think it's as deep as that. That's my that's my fear of this K fear.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, he's taking it in a different direction. So far, I don't love it. Does that mean they could, you know, pivot?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

It could. They gotta do something. They gotta pivot something, they gotta pivot quick. But here was an interesting thing, too, with the series. So the first thing, Mike, that you see on screen is a warning that there's a depiction of suicide in this episode, in this first episode. And sure enough, that's what we get. And unlike the first two films, now again, we talked about the 91 film. There was definitely violence. There was some graphic violence. But this is heavy duty. This is even and some of that I will say was gratuitous. This is way over the top. Yeah, this is unnecessary violence that we're seeing depicted. Uh, I felt it was very gratuitous.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

And the they did it twice. You know, once was gratuitous, twice was just take me out of the film.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yeah, lots of plot holes. Uh, the character development. Again, I know we're only two episodes in, but it's it's pretty weak so far. Now, you know, this there's a character. The daughter is the son goes missing.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Right. And in the first episode, I think he goes missing, or towards the end of the first episode, maybe the beginning of the second one. I don't remember. Yeah. It's it's definitely actually in the first because the daughter goes looking for him. You know, down she's walking down the street going to the neighbor's house to see if he's over there playing with a friend or something. Yeah. And you see this car tinted windows kind of stalking her. You know, okay, is this Max Katie? Of course it isn't. It's a it's a it's a podcaster. And Mike, they're not doing us any favors with this character. Talk about this was one of the stupidest characters.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

And again, you think back to the Mitchum and De Niro that pull up in a convertible. And it's him. And it's him. It's Katie. And here, you know, that's what I thought it was gonna be. It was I thought it was gonna be Javier. And right. It's like, what?

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Who yeah, yeah, because we see Yeah, De Niro, we see him roll up in front of the house, you know, in in and encountering Jessica Lang's character who was married to Nick Nolte, you know, in that in the 91 film. Yep. And the and the way that he manipulates and and persuades Juliet Louis. Lewis's character to come to the the theater at her high school. Like he's the drama teacher, and that's a very that's a very interesting scene there. But but there's this whole thing with I guess Max Cady in in this series, Max Cady's girlfriend, this this Amy Broncado, I guess, and in in so what they're what there's there's this claim that his girlfriend actually killed his wife and is and is lying to protect him. Right. Again, it gets very convoluted, I feel like.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Too convoluted. Although they claim they have the physical evidence to prove it was the girlfriend. A knife, apparently. A knife, and there's other things that they point to saying it's definitely her. That's why he gets out so quickly. What is wrong?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

What is wrong with the son, Mike?

SPEAKER_03 22:49

I don't know. I he's a little out there, right? But he's not I don't know. What about the AI kid? Didn't that bother you? The AI generated Max Katie.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Well, it doesn't given the world we're living in right now. But no, I get it because there's obviously a fascination with the case. And so he's he's doom scrolling on his phone in his bedroom. Yeah. And one of the things he he comes across is this video of supposedly Katie's son, but as you say, it's an AI generated version of him. And he's right, well, this is what I would have looked like if, you know, so and so didn't murder my mother. It's just a very bizarre. And then he sees him in the house throughout the episodes, walking to different rooms. So I'm like, okay, this is a ghost story now.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

What is going on? And again, like, you know, even the 91, we're not in the age of social media yet.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

It wasn't even the internet, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

No. So, okay, they're trying something different by you. Like I said, CCH Ponder is looking for clicks and likes. You know, so they're looking to modernize it away, but they're getting way off track. That's how I took it.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

And and now they they were trying to pay homage to some of the iconic scenes from the first two films, especially the 91, because you cannot beat that reveal of De Niro in the prison cell when he's doing tricep dips and pull up and he's just jacked and ripped and lean and all of that. And they they don't play that out exactly the same way. But what's interesting is Katie he dislocates his finger. I forget what happens. He just well, he gets arrested, right? So there's a sequence in one of the the second episode, maybe, where the cops bust into his house, yeah, and he doesn't know they're cops, so he just defends himself. Right. This is that whole thing of Max Cady having been in prison, studied up in the law, so he knows how to go just right up to the line, but not to get right in trouble. Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

But anyways, and again, we don't know that yet. We don't know that yet. No. That he's been to the law library. Yeah. I'm sure we're gonna find it out.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

While he's getting arrested, he dislocates his finger, so he's in the ER and he's being tended to. Again, Amy Adams, right outside the operating room. Nobody, no issue with that, I guess. No. No signal. Here's a question for you. Now, this is the reveal of the tattoos and Javier's body and stuff. He wasn't exactly on the same plan that De Niro was on, I would argue. No. He looks fun, he looks great. He looks great. I'm not saying that. He looks fantastic. But here's my question for you, Mike. When's the last time you went to the ER for a dislocated finger and the doctor told you to take your shirt off? I know. It's kind of stupid. Yeah. It's like, hey, okay, Mike, uh, take your pants off, and I'll be there in just a minute. Doc. It's my finger. They don't just take your pants off.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

They don't even use the best lines from both movies, which is I don't know whether to look at them or read them. Yes. You know, I mean, that line's nowhere to be found.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

No, so you're right. When we when we have the opportunity to deliver these iconic moments, they just fall flat. They're very stale. Again, I said at the top, the score was the only thing that was like, okay, got that cool score in there.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

And that was only in the first episode. They didn't even use it in the second episode.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Well, in the very beginning, in the credits, the title, you know, the opening they do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

For some reason, I missed it, the second one. It just kept going. Scorsese and Spielberg, EPs on this? It's kind of shocking to be, and especially Scorsese, who's done this and done it well.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Was Spielberg related involved at all with the 91 film? Not that I'm aware of. Okay. No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

But again, they're friends, and he was probably telling them about the project and wouldn't mind getting some, you know, love or some info from him.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

There was another uh there's another actor, Ted Lemine, that's in it, who folks would folks would know from now he worked with De Niro before. He worked with Scorsese, yeah. He was in Heat and uh and then of course Silence of the Lambs. That's he was the lotion in the basket, you know, people would remember him from, right? Great, great actor. But he showed he's in this as Amy Adams' ex-husband, or I guess, right? Right. Yeah, it was her ex-husband.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

If it's true to the book, at some point, you know, Patrick Wilson's gonna have an affair. We know he's doing drugs, I guess, right? What is that?

SPEAKER_02 27:22

You're right. Okay, it's like liquid cocaine or something. Is it ketamine? I don't even know what it is. I'm not sure what that is. I'm not gonna, you know, we're not uh studied on the drugs here on the O'Brother podcast. That's another podcast. But but yeah, there's something going on with him. Now, you mentioned the affair, so that's in the storyline of the 91 film, Nick Nolte is having an affair with the court clerk. Ileana Douglas, right.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Which is basically his assistant.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah, and that's definitely something that's going on here because I think there's a similar scene where Patrick Wilson slips off into a room in the house and he's on the phone, right? There's this if you think in the 91 film, Nick Nolte gets caught actually by Jessica Lang on the phone with Ileana Douglas's character, and she calls him out.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, it was very subtle, I think, but I think they're gonna hammer us with that.

unknown 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Probably next episode.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

And the plot point you you talked about earlier, whatever's going on between the two of them, between what Anna and Tom, the the the two lawyers. Right. I don't know. They're not giving us enough. It's it's this one, you know, there's a shot at one point where the two of them are in the bedroom talking, and the daughter is down the hallway, the door's open, yeah, and she's like, We're not gonna tell anybody, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:35

This is just between yeah, that was such a weak weak portrayal of And maybe we'll get the payoff, but I don't see why why.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

There wasn't a point. There wasn't enough there for me to want to hang in there.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

This would be even more. I'd be more critical.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Well, the only thing we can go on here, that there are some ratings for Rotten Tomatoes, 75% critics, 74% audience, which honestly that's high, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

And the critics have seen all 10 episodes. So that's a distinction.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah, and then the the Scorsese film, like 77%, both critics and audience.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Yeah. Which And I think, you know, I think like a a good solid 80 for this is good. Yeah, like this show.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

No, 91 film, I said like 80, you know? Because again, the gratuitous violence, there's some other things in there that I don't love, but but the 1962, the original film, 88% from the critics, 86% from the audience, which honestly that's a little low. I agree. That's a little low.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

I think that's the better film. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

For sure. It's the original. You can't, you really can't beat the original. And there's something about the black and white, you know, with that screen.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

And they both stayed true to the source material. You know, Scorsese stayed true to the original vision. I this isn't doing that.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

No, we were just we were just talking about film noir on the podcast, and we did the Cohen Brothers who wasn't there. The man who wasn't there. And you know, the 62 kind of gives you that noir vibe with the black and white. You know, it's not true noir, but it has some of those elements. So Right, right. Well, I just based on the two episodes, all I would say is I wouldn't recommend it if you have Apple TV. I mean, you're already paying for it. I guess you won't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

This is not a reason to sign up for Apple TV.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Exactly. Exactly right. Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe I I feel like we we'd need to see it through at least another couple of episodes to see where they go with it.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

I will follow them to the edge of it.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And that's a that's a bold claim.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Yeah, I'm willing to go that far to give them because of who it is. Now, I think there's almost a different director for every episode. Yeah, but you know what?

SPEAKER_02 31:03

I don't care how good the remaining eight are, honestly. That can't, in for me, my opinion, that can't make up for what I've already seen in these two episodes. They're they're that weak.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

It's hard for me to argue with you.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah, but but I, you know, it r respectfully, I think let's see the arc and where they take it and and check on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Right, there's another show on Apple TV called Widow's Bay. And I was really enjoying it, got to the fourth episode, really liked it. And then they did this kind of bizarre, let's go back 200 years to show the history of this, and boom, I was like, wow. They just and I haven't watched the most recent episode. That's how bad it was.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

And what have we been touting on the podcast for so long? Uh especially you is the the the whole point of it's it all comes down to the writing, it's all about the story.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

All story, and this it's built in. Come on! Follow McDonald's book, it's already there, it's right there, it's right there, folks.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah. So I you said it perfectly. This is not a reason to sign up for Apple TV. I'm still not recommending it, but if you're a fan of either of the films, or maybe you read the novel and you're just curious to see what they do with it, you know, enter at your own risk.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

Because Javier is such a good actor. I mean, he won an Oscar for the Cohen Brothers film.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

And No Country for Old Men. Yeah, he's miss for me. You know, I I didn't, again, F1. I did wasn't impressed with that film over.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

I was fine with F1.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Yeah, yeah, you were. You were. You stood true to that, too. So he did he's nothing if not loyal, folks.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

I went down in flames with it. I knew it wasn't gonna win anything.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

No, but it was it's not like that was an unsuccessful film. Yeah. A lot of people turned out for that film, you know?

SPEAKER_03 33:01

And look at the film that's really killing it is Michael.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Yeah, that's right. Yep. Yep. Go check out that review here in the Oprah Podcast. Yeah. Recommending Michael, but not you know, controversial maybe, but uh not recommending Cape Fear. But I, you know, if you're gonna hang with it, I feel like I might have to at least give it another couple episodes and see where we end up. But I'm just not I'm not impressed right now where we are.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Uh and I do foresee there could be a tap out. I just tap out.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Oh, you well, you just said.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

I'm gonna I'm gonna follow it, but it might be a good idea. There'll be a point. There'll be a point where I view it differently, where I go in kind of with an attitude, which Angrily never want to do that. Yeah, and watching it in anger. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Well, anything else to say about this or the two films or the novel or anything you want to, you know, no, I think there's a lot of talent in this cast that we're not they're not utilizing. And you have to wonder, you know, would this approach and and would what we are seeing be any different, any better if it was written for the screen, if it was another film adaptation. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Right. Maybe that would have been a better route.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

And you make a good point. You know, I it's interesting to wonder when you have and of course you can make arguments like just look at the Fargo TV series as a great example. Right. But when you get too many cooks in the kitchen trying to maintain this this through line, this creative through line and consistency and the quality and the the voice and just all of the things that go along with that, both in the writing and the directing, yeah. I wonder if that's it's not suffering because of that, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

And if I step in to direct an episode, and I'm a big fan of the source material, I don't know how I can live with myself connecting it to those first two episodes. Yeah, like if you're coming on episode three, you know, like what am I doing here? But that's a tough gig. Episode three is gonna really be a tell.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Whether or not I watch with anger or or watch for fun. Afternoon, Counselor. Well see, that's the other thing. Both Mitchum and De Niro play with that southern accent where Javier's like Spanish and goes down that route.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Well, but that's obviously he's not gonna come in with a a Carolina accent or something.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

You know it's been dumb before. Well you could do it.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Not that he couldn't, but that I'm okay with, right? Because it's still there's still that aspect of the the the accent, if you want to call it that. You know, that that's that's just a minor point. But but yeah, there is something about that kind of southern hospitality.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Soft spoken Javier doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Well, and forget that, he's just even what you see, again, there's some very graphic sequences.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

They do the you know, the gratuitous hanging upside down sequence like De Niro does in the 91 film. And none of that worked. And every time he was on screen, Mike, the suspense was not suspenseful. They I just whereas when De Niro came on the or even Mitchum. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

And look at the difference between those two characters and the way they were played. And it seems like every time De Niro was on, we had that, you know, that bass thump, you know, that that great soundtrack.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

That's just you'll insert it, but yeah, and I think they're I think they're making a mistake, it seems like, here, with some other additional character that's gonna be the who-done it. Like I don't even think it's gonna be Max Cady at the end of the day here. I think Max Cady is going to be an innocent character in this series.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Yeah. And that's enough for me to not like it. And whether or not, you know, maybe I shouldn't have looked at the IMDB episodes. Yeah. But if the Sun isn't in another episode and CCH Pounder isn't in another episode, that's gonna be weird.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

No, they they have to be. There's there's no way that that that wouldn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

Like it's the others, it all says 10, 10, 10, and you see them too.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Yeah, again, I wouldn't read I wouldn't read much into that. Uh there's there's too much there too next week. There's too much there to flesh out still with those characters. But well, there you go. There's first two episodes of review on uh Cape Fear. Uh we got the third episode coming next Friday.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

Incomplete at best.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Yeah, yeah. But for me, the the only reason I might even stay in there is just if you're I might just hang as long as you hang.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

You know, but I could easily not go back and be fine and move on to. I finished Spider Noir. Right. I'd recommend that to people. I would recommend that. Much better series, just based on two episodes.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

But I'm surprised you finished it. I'm still at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yeah, which I think that's a testament to the quality that you're getting there. Plus the fact that, you know, Nick Cage, it's just, you know, he's just real enjoyable to watch. So uh he he hooks me in. But this one hasn't so far in episodes one and two of K Fear, but we'll see what what the remaining eight bring us, and maybe we'll come back and talk about it. Maybe we won't. If we don't, and this is all you see in the O Brother YouTube channel, that's a pretty good indication of where we ended up with the series. That's a tell. That's a tell. All right, Mike. Well, I appreciate again uh all those that are supporting the podcast. Make sure that you like and subscribe, and uh you can uh also find us on all podcast platforms if you uh like to consume your podcast and the audio variety. Uh, we're on all major podcast platforms. Make sure that you drop some comments and let us know if you're watching this series, what your thoughts are on it. Are you a fan of the the previous two films and what did you think of those? Have you read the novel like Mike? What's your thoughts there in terms of what you're seeing in these first two episodes of Cape Fear if you're if you're watching it?

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Yeah, I I really want to hear from people who know the source stuff, know the movies. Yeah. And you know, I want to hear from Javier fans. Do they think he's giving us the right treatment?

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah, it's a big big shoes to step into. But and and it see now, his character in No Country for All Men, scare the bejesus out of you. Yeah. One of the most menacing, intimidating characters who said very little, right? And was very frightening on film. Yeah. This there's none of that here, sir. None of that here. He's not even scary accidentally. All right, how to do it for you. But all right, that's gonna do it for another episode of the O Brother Podcast, Mike. I've been your host, Dan Smith, alongside me. He's always my brother from the same mother, Mike Smith. Something like that. Think we'll see you next time. Bye, everyone. If we can get our shit together,