You're listening to the O Brother Podcast. Real Brothers, Real Talk. Welcome to the O Brother Podcast. I'm your host, Dan Smith, alongside me as always, my brother from the same other, Mike Smith. How's it going tonight, Dan? I don't think uh a lot of controversy this week. Yeah. You know, something told me you were going to refer back to an episode that people may or may not have seen at this point. So if you're watching it, I should, because there's a couple of I told you so's, but not going to do it. If you are watching the O'Brother podcast or listening in chronological order, it'll make sense what Mike is referring to subtly, which is our previous review on the Mandalorian and Grogu. But for those that are just jumping in this episode, totally irrelevant. Makes no sense. So let's get on with the business, Mike. We are back with our eighth installment of the Old Brother Criterion Collection reviews. And this is going to be our fourth Cohen Brothers film. Really? Yeah. The Man Who Wasn't There. So I hadn't seen this in quite a long time. And I used to own it just like the regular Blu-ray or whatever. Yeah. So you had this version. That's the version I had that you're holding up there, right? Right. And now we've got this sweet criterion collection. And I'll talk about these at the end. Yeah, which and whatnot. Yeah, this is not, this is certainly not the most jam-packed criterion, but I'm not going to complain when you've got a commentary with the Cohen brothers. And again, there's there's a few other features there we'll talk about. Let me ask you a quick question, too. I was wondering this. Would you prefer a commentary track from the directors, the filmmakers, the director, directors in this case? I mean, Ethan's not credited, but you know, anyways. Right. From the time of the film's release, or would you prefer it more current since this film is, you know, we're in 25 years now celebrating the man who wasn't there? I think I'd I like them when they're current because I want to know what was going through their mind in the moment. Because 20 years or 15 years, that kind of sh changes your opinion or changes your point of view. Yeah, okay. So you'd you'd like them to have had some reflection on it themselves as the artists. Okay. Yeah, I was just curious about that. But so I hadn't seen this in quite some time. I mentioned tw I was so shocked to look and see that it's the 25th anniversary. We are what it it came out, I mean, it I guess it officially released November 16th, 2001. It had a limited release prior to that, like in Los Angeles or whatever. But the worldwide release was the 16th of November. Which is surprising because they were established when they made this. So, you know, doing an advanced release for the guys that kicked off their career with Blood Simple, which we reviewed, and all the stuff before it. Not a lot of people would have seen that at that point. You know. I mean, perhaps by then. I mean, you know, Cinephiles, certainly. But that's why we did an episode on Blood Simple, because it may not be, uh even though it was their first feature, it may not be it certainly is lesser known, I would argue, right? Among general audiences for sure. Yeah. And and then there was right after that was the comedy with Nicolas Cage. Raising Arizona. Raising Arizona and Holly Hester. Here's what's crazy. In a five-year stretch, you this is what you get. Okay. Fargo, the big Lebowski, Brother Were Art Thou, and The Man Who Wasn't There in five years. Yeah. We we didn't get a Star Wars film in seven years. Right. And these guys are hitting us. I mean, blood simple. To be your first movie, it's it's remarkable. And to have a film like my God, I had all these films in my head. I'm thinking of the one with uh you know the gangster film. Miller's Crossing. Miller's Crossing. Give him the high hat. Right, which is probably still low on people's list of having seen. And it's arguably one of their best. We'll we'll we'll cover that one on the O'Brother podcast for sure. Yeah, so directed by Joel Cohen. You know, this is usually how it goes. They both wrote it, both Joel and Ethan. And the cast here, uh Billy Bob Thornton, here's another guy. You would talk about Nicolas Cage. Now, different from Nicolas Cage. Now, Nicolas Cage is one of these actors who he could have easily slipped into oblivion and went the way of so many seemingly A-listers that have just kind of slipped into obscurity. But man, as he continued to reinvent himself and is as popular today as he's ever been. I mean, look at the Spider-Noir, for example, you know, which is currently out on Prime. And Billy Bob Thornton, same thing. He's hotter now than ever with like this Landman series that he's got out and all these other projects that he's done. And Billy Bob Thornton, famous, won a an Oscar. You know, and he was heavy. Sling Blay. And what's that? Yeah, Sling Blay. I I can't do the voice or whatever. Yeah. But that guy, when I first saw this, I'm like, who is that's not Billy Bob Thornton? They've they got the name wrong. Because you would never guess. And he was in a movie with Bill Paxton, the late Bill Paxton, called The Simple Plan. Great film. Great that's why we should be a film. We should cover that at some point. Yeah. That's a good one. But he's got a great uh filmography, and he's so brilliant in this, and yet it's a film where he has very they they refer to him as laconic, like very few words he speaks throughout the film. It's more he narrates, which is common to film noir, much more than he talks. Well, set the film up, because yes, this is uh undoubtedly a film noir, a great film noir by the Cohen brothers, but set the film up. I mean, they would basically say it's about a barber who wants to become a dry cleaner. Like, right, that's the shortcut. Which is what I was gonna say. Okay, okay. But it's basically, you know, that on top of that, there's a story here with him and his wife, who works for nerdlingers and loves her job and loves the perks she gets with their job. Plus she's having an affair. Who's the actress? Big Dave. Who's the actress? The oh, Frances McDormand, the wife of Joel Cohen. Yeah, who has been in many of the Cohen brothers' films. We've covered other films of hers like Fargo and and uh Nomad Land and others. Remember, Billy Bob Thornton was in the first TV season of Fargo, which is brilliant. It is, it's brilliant, yes. So I didn't mean to interrupt as you were finishing the synopsis there. Anything else that you wanted to set up? No, just that, you know, there's an affair going on and he finds out about it, but he's kind of indifferent. He, like you said, he finds this guy played by John Polito, who, if you don't know who he is, he's in several Cohen Brother movies. We we we've got we've got lineage, you know, that comes out. We've got lineage because of our our mother's last name is maiden name is Polito. But a brilliant, oh man, such a great actor. Such a pretty character actor. We always reference that, which I did earlier for Miller's Crossing. That it's an obscure reference, but those that know the film Miller's Crossing will know, you know. Give him the high hat. Right. He he's the one in this one, yeah, he he's wearing a toupee. Yes. Right? So he goes to the barber and he's wearing a toupee. Right. So he goes, hold on, takes it off. But the funny part is when he starts pitching to Billy Bob Thornton, hey, I need an investor for this dry cleaning business, which at that time must have sounded bizarre. It's still kind of bizarre. What the hell is dry cleaning? Well, you remember the Seinfeld bit where he would talk about dry cleaning. What the hell is dry cleaning? He's like, you know, and he'd like dust off his shirt. He's like, that's there, that's your dry cleaning. Yeah. So he decides to take Polito up on this idea. And they're negotiating, and he's sitting in a chair, and John Polito's on his bed, and he's fixing his hair. And at one point, there was this kind of it's so subtle, Dan. I don't think I would have picked up on it until Billy Pobb says, is that a pass? You're talking okay, so we've got to set this up a little bit because that's a bit, yeah. And that's a different scene. That's in a hotel room. Right. And John Polito. He's bringing them the money. Yeah, exactly. And John Polito, who plays Creighton Tolliver, that's what a great character name that is. That's very Cohen-esque. He's on the bed, and as you said, he just this very subtle. If you blink, you'll miss it. He he blinks. He winks. Yeah, he's kind of unbuttoning his tie. Yes, and he winks very slowly. And as you said, Billy Bob, his character's name's Ed Crane, and he looks at him and he says, Is that a pass? And then I think Creighton says, maybe. And he says, You're way out of line, mister. Way out of line. And that's you know, that's as heated as Ed gets. That's about as animated as he gets. You're way out of line, mister. Yeah. Yeah. So let's uh very quickly, Billy Bob plays Ed Crane, Francis McDormand, you mentioned, plays his wife Doris. Michael uh Battaluco, great character actor, plays his brother-in-law, Frank, who is first chair and owns the barbershop because Ed is just a barber. He's second chair at the barbershop. And I don't know if you know it. He played a barber in one of the other Cohen Brother films. Might have been Hudsucker Proxy. Battle Uko? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So did I let me see if I wrote it? And you mentioned Big Dave that Doris is having an affair with, of course, played by the late great James Gandalf. Correct. Right? He was a barber in the Big Lebowski, which is behind me. In the Big Lebowski? Yeah. Okay. Wow. I'd have to oh yeah, I'd have to check that out again. Okay. John Polito, of course, as we mentioned as Creighton Tolliver. And a very young, about 15-year-old Scarlett Johansson, who's in the film, plays a character named Birdie, Tony Shaloub. It's got to be one of Tony Shaloob's greatest performances. He's so good in this as an attorney. And his name? Freddie Riedenschneider. And where does that come from? Do you know? Is it double indemnity? Close. Asphalt Jungle. Asphalt Jungle, okay. And I know there's a lot of noir references. And and in James M. Kane, who wrote Double Indemnity, I think there's uh some nods to him, or certainly indifferences based on his writing. If you watch, there's a brand new extra from 2025 on the Criterion. Right. And if you watch that, there's a woman interviewing the brothers. Megan Abbott, who has been on some other Criterion releases that we have. Yes. She's really good. And she points out all these different film noirs. She lists almost every film noir you can think about. Yeah, she's deeply educated on film history for sure. It almost took away from the interview for me because instead of giving them credit for what was original, she was like, oh yeah, you've got Riedenschneider from Asphalt Jungle, you got Dietrichsen from Double Indemnity. Nerdlinger. Nerdlinger. You know, there's all sorts of references. Well, uh the uh but the the point I would say to counter that though is have you ever seen an artist, or in this case both Joel and Ethan, having a more grand time being interviewed? I mean, I think that I think it led to them being as comfortable as they are in that interview because they're with a colleague essentially. It's a woman who knows the language and you know they're she's she's riffing off some deep cuts that I didn't even know. I'm sure you knew more of them than I did. Yeah, and the ones I didn't know I was writing down. Sure, you're gonna add those to your watch list. Uh and then I just wanted to lastly mention Richard Jenkins, who plays uh Scarlett Johansson's father in the film. He's another great character actor, but he's he's a lawyer by trade. And he goes to him because he needs a lawyer, and he he's like, I'm I'm not that good. Right. He's like, I do probate, and I tell, you know, I you don't want me for this. You you want Freddie Riedenschneider. Correct. Up there in Sacramento or wherever Sacramento is, right? That whole inside joke. Yeah, this is again, uh to be clear, it's a Criterion review. And as always, Criterion puts together a nice little box here. You got a nice booklet inside with some photos and a nice essay on the film. And uh what I'd love though, again, as you mentioned, there's a the interview with the Cohen Brothers is from last year, uh late last year, actually. You've got the commentary from the Cohen Brothers that's back in 2004. Which is everything else is on the Blu-ray. Everything else, yes, other than the new interview. Yeah, so you've got the commentary, you've got an interview with Roger Deacons, who is the DP on the film and has basically been the cinematographer most of the almost all of the Cohen Brothers films. Yeah. First time first feature in black and white for him at the time. Right. And but it was shot in color. Yeah, we'll talk about that. A short making of, and then you've got just about maybe five minutes of deleted scenes. There wasn't much there. But the commentary is great to listen to. In that interview, it's about a half hour, a little bit longer than a half hour. I wish it was longer, but but that was a nice little treat. Something new added to the disc. And they're not, you know, early in their career, you couldn't find those interviews. He they just weren't talking. Yeah. And I think it was just a comfort thing, like you've pointed out. So I wanted to see this back then. You know, like what did these guys, how did they come up with this? What are their thoughts? I mean, from Big Lebowski and all these other films that are just so unique. So let's talk about the look, the aesthetic of the film, because as a noir, there's certain things and you can speak to certain elements that you would expect to see. And and what would some of those be that are exemplified or illustrated here in this film? Well, I pointed out the narration. That's a dead giveaway right there. When it when it starts with a narrator, and oftentimes, like Sunset Boulevard starts with a narrator, and you find out at the end of the film he's the dead body that starts the movie off. You know, so so that the shading with black and white. And it's amazing how good it is considered now they shot this in color, very muted colors, but they did it because it was contractual with overseas markets. There are overseas markets that don't want anything to do with black and white. They could care less about film noir. And some of the language. You know, we hear them speak, especially Riedenschneider, the lawyer. You know, he doesn't talk like a typical lawyer. He talks like a guy in a film noir. Yeah. Yeah. He's very, it's funny, there's a couple of scenes between him and Billy Bob where they're in a diner when he first meets Riedenschneider, and Riedenschneider is saying, you do this, you do that. And he at one point he says something like, Yeah, I'm an attorney, you're a barber. You don't know anything. Like, just leave it to me. He's a very confident guy, right? Yep. Obviously very successful at his craft. It it's funny because the spoiler alert, the thing that he's most uh disappointed in is the fact that what happens with the trial, because we're fast, I'm I'm cutting way ahead here in the story, but there's a there's a trial that takes place and and uh and and what Frances McDorman is the defendant and Riedenschneider is defending her, and go ahead and finish it. Well, well, wait a minute. Is that is that the point that she's the defendant? Yes, she's the defendant. He doesn't become a suspect of anything until after she's out of the picture. Well, set that up because we really didn't s really say what, okay, what what catapults this into, you know, the the the uh the the crime drama that it is. What happens is is early in the film, she kind of passes out at this party. Not at the party, but she gets home, she's like sleeping like a rock. And he decides to go. He needs 10 grand because he wants to get in the dry cleaning business. Well, what he gets summoned by Big Dave at this point. So he's actually already that's already happened. Use her keys and just come on in. Yeah, the blackmail has already happened. Right. And then he, yeah, he gets a call or whatever, he gets summoned by Big Dave Gandalf at Nerdlinger's the department store. Right. And they're in his office. And he's basically saying, What kind of man are you? You don't come and confront me like a man? Well, he's not saying it that way. He's not saying it, he's saying it very subtly. Yeah, I think so. Where you don't because Scandal Feen, he's a very imposing figure as it is. He doesn't even need to get very animated. But in the beginning, I and I think he's playing it that way because it's building the suspense. Because you don't, you're like, is he on to Ed? That's yeah, you're right. You know what I mean? Does he know what's going on here? He's kind of building it up. He doesn't know it's Billy Bob. That's correct. That's correct. Yeah. Or Ed. Or Ed, right. And so, so back to the sequence where Ed goes to meet him and they're in the department store in his office. It's very dark, again, there's like no lights on for some unknown reason, like but a lamp. You know, maybe a lamp that Deacons is using to film the shot, basically, or light the scene. Yeah. And and and and it slowly becomes apparent that Dave is onto onto Ed. Right. And the reason is what what he because he gets a hold of Creighton Tolliver. Right. The John Polito's character. The John Polito character. That's really what tips off Big Dave. I forget. He beat it out of him, he says. Right. But because Creighton Tolliver, that earlier scene you're referencing between Ed and Big Dave, Big Dave is telling Ed about this guy had just, you know, try to solicit him for money and he said, get the hell out of here. Right. Yeah. He knew this was a scam or whatever. And so it's something to do with the timing of that, and then getting this blackmail note asking for the specific amount that Creighton taller. So he starts to put the pieces together. He thinks it's Tolliver that sent him the blackmail note when it wasn't him at all. But I think it's it maybe because he is, in fact, having an affair with Ed's wife that at that point he starts to put it together that Ed is Ed is the one behind the the ransom uh note or the blackmail note or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So and then again, that was after he had to beat it out of John Police. That he winds up confessing likely says, Hey, it was some barber I gave the money to, or you know, I got the money from. Yeah. And so that has a very climactic uh ending, that that sequence. I don't want to spoil too much about that. But but we were talking about the noir elements. And man, the the the use of of shadow and light is, I mean, it's about as good as you're ever going to get. And and and you were talking about how they shot it in color, albeit a muted color, and you do see some examples of that in the making of. I like how you see them go back and forth between the color and the black and white. And some of it, I think, was economics too. I think some of it had to do with the cost of the shooting in black and white. Hadn't quite maybe it van. I think it's had something to do with that too. But what you're saying, there's these fascinating shots. They do about three of them where you're watching the scene in color, and then from the left to the right, it starts turning black and white till he gets to the end of the that was fascinating to watch. It's amazing to think, like the Cohen brothers talk about, you're seeing the dailies, you know, when they go into what they used to have Video Village, right? And you'd see the results of the daily shots that they filmed. You're seeing those in color. So they don't really know what they've got. Right. And so it it's it when you think of it that way, it's quite fascinating the result they were able to get on film. They didn't talk about it. But one of the most enjoyable sequences in black and white for me is when Riedenschneider is talking to both uh the couple in in a room at the jail, and there's these bars, and it almost looks like they're already in jail. I can't really make out that photo. Yeah, there's that's a shot of Reedenschneider in the jail right there. Right. And it looks like they're in a jail cell, but they're not. They're just in this wide open room, and the light is coming through. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating stuff. That was fascinating. There's another one where the the narration is happening, and Ed is walking out of a building. I don't know if he's leaving Nerdlingers or what it is, I forget, but he's walking out of this building and he stops. It's an overhead shot looking down of him standing on the steps, and the the the shadow and light that you see in that image is striking enough, but when you listen to what he's saying, he's talking about you know, I had to I don't know, he's metaphorically or something saying I had to get away before they sucked me in. And he says, as he's saying, Before they all sucked me in, he the his character disappears completely into the darkness. Yeah. And things like that may or may not have even been intentional by the Cohen brothers, but it's these happy accidents that happen when you're filming these things. Now, Mike, talk about this tracking shot they did up the building face. There's a shot of them, Billy Bob, going into an apartment building to make the drop with the m well, he's going to pick up the money. He picks up the money, big day, and then just out the money. Correct. So explain describe that scene because it's it's fascinating. I'm not gonna describe it properly because the cinematographer does a great job telling you exactly how he did it. He does, yeah. And it looks like he goes into a door, goes up a flight or an elevator, and comes out another room. It was the same room. Yeah. They had a that was a hallway in an apartment building. And the shot is looking in the window down this hallway, okay? So you've got that POV sort of shot. Right. And it's it's built the the Big Dave just made the drop of money based on the blackmail note that he got, and Ed is watching him from the street, unbeknownst to Big Dave. Once Big Dave leaves, Ed walks into the building and we see him through the window, walk into this hallway, inside a uh a cigarette, like an ashtray they used to have back in the day. Yes. He reaches in and grabs the money, goes, as you said, seemingly upstairs to the next floor. But what the Coens do is as the camera is rising up the brick face of the building, they do a quick cut. And then it continues to rise up, you think, and they just land in the same hallway. They just redressed it. And that was another thing, my two, is some Dennis Gassner, who did the production design, you know, the way they had to redress and make it right. You you never would know that they didn't just crane up to a different floor. It it was amazing. I I've seen this movie a dozen times at least. And I never would have guessed that was the same floor. Yeah. It was just it was almost like a magic trick, like an illusion. It's like that newspaper shot in Blood Simple or Right. One of a million shots you can think of in so many Cohen Brothers films. But it was just it's a magnificent uh shot. And and again, it's the the artistry there with with the cinematography and the set design and kind of everything, all the elements coming together at once to give you that shot. Also, Mike, talk about the hubcap shot. Yeah, there's an accident at one point with Ed is driving Scarlett Johansson's character, Bertie. He thinks she's got a shot at being a professional piano player. And he's just looking for an out of his life and he wants something different. Now, there's a little ambiguity as to is he attracted to her, this 15-year-old? Well, pause right there because as you hear in the commentary, and I noticed before Billy Bob talks about it, but if you listen to the commentary, there's a sequence. He keeps building it up. He says, Yeah, there's a shot coming up where I do something with my body that is different than any other time you see me sitting in throughout the film. And his posture is very similar throughout the film. And I don't want to really give away why that is, but it's intentional. And there's a shot where he's sitting on a sofa behind Scarlett Johansson as she's playing piano in her home. Because he's thinking about, you know, as you said, this girl's got real talent, you know, maybe I can manage her. We're we're getting the sense that Ed might have a thing for her potentially, right? It's a bit, like you said, a bit ambiguous. Well, if you look closely in that sequence, you'll see Ed's got a pants tent going on. Right. Right, like he's aroused in the scene. Right. And because Billy Bob took his pants in the scene and kind of fluffed them up to make it look like that. It's very subtle, but you know, for you'll notice it. It was it wasn't so subtle and they cut it out. I I actually read that. That wasn't in the extras, but he made it obvious. Do you mean that they took it out of the theatrical release or something? Yeah, they took it out completely and replaced it with the one that's very, very subtle. I see. Okay. Yeah. Because it is in the film. Right. But fast forward to he's driving her home from an audition with this guy who's supposed to be, you know, this guy who discovers all of this talent, this young talent. And and that guy is a real life piano teacher and piano, you know, person. Which I don't think any part of you. Yeah, I don't know. That's a stupid thing. He's a real accomplished piano person. I was gonna say, like a real concerto type of guy, but you know, yeah, maestro or something, yeah. Yeah. But but so so they're driving he and Bertie after this audition, and she comes on to him, one thing leads to another, and they crash the car. Right. And you, you know, he's like, Bertie, no, oh, for heaven's sake, you know, it's like an Andy Griffith show. Right. He drives off, they crash, and then you it it cuts quickly to just a shot of like woods. You just see a bunch of trees, and then all of a sudden, the car just slowly enters the frame and it's airborne. Yeah, it crashes, and then one of the hubcaps from the car comes rolling over the hillside and down onto the road. And again, another brilliant Cohen Brothers shot, like from Big Lebowski. But what we're not what we hadn't talked about is this whole UFO alien subplot that's going on. But before we move to that, if if I just showed you that sequence, the hubcap shot, don't you think you would say that's gotta be the Cohen Brothers? Yes, I would. It was such a signature kind of thing. But yeah, there's a and again, this goes to the timing of this, but Big Dave's wife shows up at Ed's door. Yeah, this is Anne, who's played by Katherine Borowitz, who is just that sequence you're about to describe was awesome. Yeah, it's it's a bit bizarre because it just bizarre doesn't seem to fit. But in the time that this is set, it does fit because everybody was seeing UFOs. And she's convinced, you know, Francis McDormand didn't kill Big Dave. It was this alien ship that came and took him away, and they had to kill him because he was gonna tell or something to that effect. Some bizarre, some bizarre story. But that that sort of runs throughout, and the reason I connected to the hubcap is because I mentioned Dennis Gassner, who does did the production design, and there's all kinds of different UFO aesthetic and symbolism, right? There's from the lamps in Nerdlingers, they're in the shapes of like UFOs. There's a shot of a doctor played by one of the great uh character actors who's been in a lot of the um like a mighty wind and uh best in show. I can't think of his name right offhand, but he's wearing one of those old-timey reflectors that doctors used to wear. Again, kind of symbolic of a UFO. And there's other things. In the hubcap. In the hubcap. That's a hub. Right. You'd know you'd say that's a UFO. That's right. So again, it's just it adds to the imagery that the Cohen brothers are able to give you here. Now have you seen a HUDSucker proxy? Yeah, but it's been many, many, many years ago. Because that's where the idea for this film generated. Right. There was a poster on the wall uh in that film, and it showed all the different haircut styles, which Ed narrates every you know, little boy's haircut style. Oh, this is the the, you know, this is that. The executive contour or the uh all that. Yeah, it was it was that that was funny. I didn't know that, that it was inspired by that, and I said, Oh, just have to go back and watch the Hudsucker proxy. But uh Yeah, and that's one of their you know, lesser viewed films. Yeah. Yeah, Tim Robbins is really good in it. Really good in it, yeah. This was just De Cohen's ninth film at this point. Yeah. It was fairly early. Relatively early. Before Fargo, right? No, after Fargo. Oh, yeah. Because remember, I said we had Fargo, Lebowski, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou, and then this, the man who wasn't there, came. Yeah. In that order? Yes. Ironically, Dan, one of the least favorite Cohen brothers of mine is O'Brother. Yeah. I know. I think it's because it's country music and well, it's like bluegrass. It's bluegrass. Yeah. Yeah. It's one that that deserves a rewatch. We should give that a spin here on the O'Brother podcast. But uh, yeah, this is super enjoyable. Again, it's it's typical what you would expect from a Cohen Brothers movie. There's there's drama, there's there's this noir crime element to it, there's a lot of absurdity in it, there's humor. Right. There's a little bit of everything in here. There's great acting, it's shot magnificently. Uh, and again, you you know, if you're in if you're a collector, if you're into the extra content, the supplements, you know, I would I would highly recommend picking up the criterion for this one. It's it's definitely depending on the price difference, I suppose, right? Because things are tough out on those streets. Right. You know, maybe as you said, the Blu-ray, if you're not so concerned about the 2025 interview with the Cohen. Or the fact that you get a 4K. The Blu-ray's just fine, but the 4K ups the game. Right, especially with, as you said, what they were able to do shooting in color, but reprinting it in black and white, it looks fantastic. Yeah, it looks great. And, you know, to me, the 50% all off sale, this is a perfect time to upgrade. But if you've already got this version and you like it, you know, there's not uh you know, unless you're a real huge film of the uh fan of the film, right? You don't need to to upgrade. Spend that extra. Yeah, but you could wait for that sale for the yeah. I don't know what this I don't know what this I usually check on on like eBay to see what the original was going for. Yeah. You know, if it if you're talking about a five dollar difference, go with the criterion. Sure, sure. Yeah, this was you know, it was one that I I even though it was in my collection, as long as it was in my collection, which was up until pretty recently, until I kind of started, you know, excavating. I gave it to you as a gift, and the killer is well, I gave you the criterion as a birthday gift. And the next day after I buy it, you shoot me this one-day sale criterions having on 4K's, and I missed it. Well, I don't know that we did it justice in terms of setting up the film. I we might have butchered the the plot a little bit, but again, it's very simple. And I think that's one of the things about this film is there's things where the Cohen brothers have you reading into a scene about, and it really doesn't mean anything. You know, you'll hear them in the comments are like, yeah, we just thought it would be funny, or we just, I don't know, this idea popped into our head, and yet you're like, oh, that probably means this, and they're probably trying to communicate about, and it doesn't mean anything. What I didn't pick up on, Mike, real quick, is I don't think it was as apparent to me in my previous viewings, this kind of parallel between you know what Ed is is seeking, and Doris has her own sort of thing going on over here, right? She's she's all about just trying to get ahead. She, I think she's probably in her early 40s, right? As you hear Francis McDoran and Dorman in one of the interviews talking about probably not where she thinks she should be in life at this point. And so she's trying to, you know, get ahead by she gets in with Big Dave, and she thinks she can be the comp troller at Nerdlingers, and that's gonna give her some more status. She's the one that's gonna run the expansion. Yeah, she's trying to that blows up on her. Yeah, she's got you know the her own dri she's driven in her own way. Right. You know, and and and Ed is frankly just in the way. Uh it's it's a you know, this is a couple where you're like, why did they get together? And and he kind of s lays it out. He does. And says, you know, are you sure? Like, because she she proposes that they get married a cup like 12 days after they met. And he's like, Are you sure that you want to do that? She goes, why? Does it get any better? Which is an interesting line, you know? Yeah, yeah. Anyways, the man who wasn't there 25 years, Mike. That's hard to believe. And you can't help but think of Hitchcock, you know, in the title when you read the title, but the man who knew too much. Yeah, they uh would you would you prefer to have a version of it in color on the disc? Do you think that would be an interesting extra to have? Honestly, no. Okay. I love it the way it's shot. And as you pointed out, there's nothing mentioned in the commentary about the sequence I talk about, the jail cell. Like I'm convinced that's why it was shot that way. But they don't, you know, the cinematographer doesn't come out and say, Oh, I shot this to make it look like this. Well, actually, Deakins does talk about that sequence. He does, but not in the way I'm thinking of it. Okay, right, right. But he does spend a little bit of time on that particular shot. Yeah. Because of the way the light came in through the window. There's an interesting voiceover credit that I never would have known unless I heard them talk about it on the commentary, which is in this jail scene, there's a woman consoling her daughter, and you know, they would separate, didn't have glass partitions back then. It was just this line that said, do not cross or whatever. And the the voice of the mom was Jennifer Jason Lee. It was just a bizarre, bizarre little note there. But yeah, I I had read that a while ago. I forgot about it, but when I was getting ready for this review, I read it and I remembered it. She starred in the Hateful Eight, right? The Tarantino film. Wasn't that Jennifer Jason Lee? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, she's great. And her best film, well, not her best film, but the one with Paul Newman and Tom Hanks, the gangster film. The Road to Perdition, which interestingly, Dennis Gassner, I think, was the production designer on The Road to Perdition. Wow. So that's a weird connection. Small world, yeah. Small world, yeah. I don't know why that jumped in my head. Yeah, interesting. Anything else to uh say about The Man Who Wasn't There, why folks should either pick it up or just certainly give the film a viewing. Yeah, if you have not seen this film, and you know, I I periodically put in Cohen Brothers stuff, and they are true artists. I mean, their films are art. And for people who don't think of movies as art, this is a great one to watch and and see the art come to life. So it these guys are so talented. Yeah, it is a great piece of art, and it's the the performances are just fantastic. Every one of them is great. And and you know, when they're talking, sometimes they're like in their own little world, they're in their own little bubble. And there was times there were no captions, and I'm like, what did he just say? I'd have to rewind it because it's like mumbly. Yeah. Well, and again, uh Ed Crane, a man of few words, but yeah. Well, we've said too many words, Mike, so I think that's gonna wind this one down. The man who wasn't there. We're gonna another installment, as I said, in the O'Brother Criterion Collection reviews. Um, Cohen Brothers from circa 2001, which again is hard to believe. The time flies. We'll be back with more Criterion reviews and reviews of all sorts. And uh I just again want to thank everybody who's provided support to us, uh, whether you're downloading and listening to the podcast, if you're uh finding us on YouTube and subscribing to the channel and liking our videos, that that you know, we could we couldn't tell you how much we appreciate that. It's uh it's definitely greatly appreciated. You can find us on all podcast platforms. Also, too, Mike, I had mentioned this previously. In the show notes of every episode, there's a link at the very top that says send us a text, and you can drop us. The line, and you know, we'd love to get the engagement. We get a lot of engagement on the YouTube videos, much like we did in The Mandalorian and Grogu, but not as much on the audio downloads. And I want to get some uh some folks to test that out for us. So uh reach out to us that way and let us know what you think about this episode. Dan always cuts out shorts from the main episode. My frustration sometimes when the hate comes and they're just looking at a short and they're taking it out of context. The amount of time we put in to analyzing these films and researching the background of these films, and you just respond with hate. I mean hey, if you love the film, that's great. And we didn't. We don't care. It's just your opinion. It's our opinion. First of all, that's all directed at you. So don't let me in with your you know, it's got nothing to do with me. That's why you're annoyed. I love it. But you're right. You're right. It's it's a snapshot, it's just a segment, a brief segment of the full episode. You know, the full episodes are linked in those shorts and reels. And so, you know, we would hope that people would go and and and take a look at the full review or the full commentary for a particular episode before they cast an opinion. But listen, that's social media. So as we've always said, everybody's entitled to their opinion. That's all this is. It's us giving you our opinion on this particular film. And um, we want to hear from it. Again, just be respectful. You know, you don't have to get nasty, but um, we're pretty fortunate. You know, one thing I love, you speak about some of the the shorts that we put out. We put one out for the Mandalorian and Grogu, which I've seen twice now. And I actually, I'll say something controversial to you. I legitimately liked it better the second time. Wow. I wasn't going in. I it's just a different perspective I had. I was going in with more information, and it really people out were fans. And I truly believe it was better the second time when I saw it. I really I'm not just saying that. So we can, you know, yeah. Well, I was just gonna say in the episode, I say specifically there's gonna be a tell, and that's gonna be next week. And sure enough, the film dropped 70%, came in third. What beat it to low budget the horror films. Yeah, backdoors, a whatever obsession. Listen, yeah. But that you know, I think it's I think it's it's fair to point out that if your only measurement is the box office, which look at we've argued that a lot on the podcast, the state of the box office because that has been the litmus test for so many years. But I think it's still important to point out that you know that should not take away from anybody, including myself, who enjoyed that film in this case, or any other film for that matter. It's it's a matter of, you know, eyes and the beauty of the beholder. Or beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But there are a lot of metrics, you know, box office is just one. Uh you know, attendance is the other one. Where it like this lawrence should have placed easily in the top spot. But Mike, as you would be quick to point out, it's expensive to go to the theater. I agree. I mean, I will tell you the money that we spent on concessions and food and just the tickets alone. It adds up. It adds up. And we we were both talking when we I think we went to Michael, and we both noticed, no, it was um, I think it was Mandalorian. When I went to Mandalorian, there was a lot of buzz in the theater. People were there. And, you know, yeah, if a movie like that is gonna get more people in the theater, hey, I'm all for it. Yeah, well, I think the Devil Wears Prada did that, the sequel, and and there's others that, you know, I've seen that. But I I don't ever think we're gonna see the kind of box office numbers that we were used to. I just think those days are gone now. And and we'll see. Like Spider-Man, Spider-Man's gonna be uh uh the next big test of that, right? That's that's one of the installments in that universe that has continued to deliver. Correct. And it really hasn't disappointed. And so we'll see if they keep that streak alive because they seem to have the formula. But how about this indie movie, Obsession? I think it was, did 91 million. Was Obsession a film or is that a series? I'm I'm not sure. I haven't tuned in close enough to that. But yeah, I know that that and and is it back rooms? Is that the other one? Back rooms, that's the one that did 91 million. Yeah. And I I never even heard of it. But again, Mike, we've also commented on the podcast many times about horror is just almost foolproof, man. It's bulletproof, and it is bulletproof year-round now. So we just had Spooky Empire here in Orlando, and the horror fans, man, like that's where it's at. And and I think horror fans they do. They come out, and I think horror fans are a lot less critical. Not that they don't have an opinion on the films, but I think they're much more willing to embrace and be curious before they just slam something, you know? Right. And I think that's because there's so many kind of ridiculous things that happen in horror films that you know they're fake, but you're willing to say, hey, this is what entertains me. Yeah. That's it. That's it. They just you want to be entertained, and I don't necessarily, it doesn't need to be Shakespeare. Uh you know what I mean. It's uh I mean, for God's sakes, we covered the terrifier on the podcast. And yes, we will cover terrifier four. Just want to warn you and prepare you for that in your mind. But uh, well, there you go. You know, again, I think it it's interesting that um what you mentioned that the Mandalorian Grogu kind of drop off there. Because I think a lot of people might be sitting back saying, look, I'm already spending a a pretty good amount of money every month on Disney Plus. I'm just gonna wait till it comes to streaming. I think that's still something that we're seeing. Um but you know, a film like this, God, this would stand no chance if it came out today in the theater. It wouldn't last a week. Yeah, I think you're you're right. And it didn't, it didn't do any money as it was back then. I mean, yeah. It it it did it didn't do anything. Worldwide it made like 19 million bucks. I would hope that it because you know, no matter what metric you use for this film, you know, it's it points in the right direction. Well, if you're if you're going to use box office, then you're already starting off on the wrong foot. If you use any other metric, I would say. Right. But again, twenty-five years ago, it wasn't like now they tell you on Friday what the box office numbers are going to be Monday. And they're Dan, they're usually down to the penny. And maybe, Mike, that is where we've gone wrong is this obsession and focus on box office. But we've often said, you know, box office isn't it. I mean, but look at we just looked at, we just reviewed every single Oscar nominated film and we liked them all. And they weren't all they didn't all break the box office. Some of them were barely in the box office. Exactly. But they were great films, great, great art. So I think we're doing a disservice to the to the medium by continuing to focus. Now look, films need to make money, you know, you need to get paid, and you need to, I get it. And look at look at you know, you and I stood up for Michael when all the critics critics were tanking it. Absolutely. Yeah. It's 850 million in climate. And I stand by that. I stand by that review, I stand by the debate, the arguments we had, and but at the end of the day, we were we were transparent and straightforward with that assessment, and I think it stands. And if you haven't seen that review, go back and watch our Michael review. It's it's gotten a lot of a lot of attention, I would say. And and and in the clips we put out for that one in particular, um, you know, there's one thing that's clear, people love Michael Jackson. And that that that's the most obvious thing, right? And not just that, but there's certain artists and art that's just sacred for people. It's sacred for whatever the reasons are. Right. And so uh for luckily we're on the right side of that one, but uh you less agree, but we could easily have gone with the current of critics of course and criticized, oh, we left this out, left that out. And I explain a lot in the review. That's right. But we set it up in the first looks, right? And you even said, I think that was a good reference point to go back to what you saying. I don't okay, I get all the other ancillary stuff and the controversies. That's not what I want to go to the theater for. I want to go see the singing and the artist, and the and that's what we got. And those flashbulb moments of his talent. That's what I wanted to see. And I saw it by Jafar Jackson. He was fantastic. He was stupendous, yeah, absolutely. All right, Mike, we're gonna wrap this one up. Yeah the man who wasn't there, 25th anniversary. At least we're claiming that it's just about there. I guess November would be the 25th anniversary. So uh Criterion Collection, it's in the can, Mike, and that's gonna do it for another episode of the Old Brother Podcast. I've been your host, Dan Smith, alongside me as always, my brother from the same mother, Mike Smith, and we will see you next time. Hi, everyone. I think it's time for an executive uh contour, Mike, there's a