Oh Brother
Real brothers, Reel Talk: Dan & Mike Smith cover film, TV, & artist interviews 🍿📺🎤
My brother Mike and I launched the “Oh Brother” podcast in 2020. The show’s primary objective is to share our enthusiasm for film and cinema in an informative and entertaining way. We also enjoy interviewing artists with diverse backgrounds in film and television who work both in front of and behind the scenes.
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Oh Brother
The Black Phone - Pick Up or Hang Up?
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Brace yourselves as we peel back the layers of the horror film 'Black Phone'. Get ready to dive into the narrative, meet the characters, and explore the chilling setting, as we guide you through this cinematic, yet flawed tale. Notably, we unravel the unique backstory of the film's writer, Joe Hill, who carries the legacy of the legendary Stephen King.
In this sinister world, we turn our spotlight on the young actors, Madeleine McGraw and Mason Thames, whose nuanced performances are worth a shout-out. Traveling back to the 70s in Denver, we unearth the horrifying reality of child abductions during those times, and how seemingly innocuous objects like a van and party balloons acquire a terrifying significance.
Tune in to our conversation as we dissect the 'Black Phone', and scrutinize the spine-chilling character of the Grabber. Walk with us through the terror-stricken paths of the Grabber's black balloons and the dreaded black phone.
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Discussion
Speaker 1Welcome to the Obrother Podcast with hosts Dan and Mike Smith , Brothers from the same mother with different opinions on movies , TV , video games and more Plus celebrity interviews . Get ready , get set it's time for the Obrother Podcast .
Speaker 2Welcome to the Obrother Podcast from your host , dan Smith . Alongside me is always my brother from the same mother , mike Smith , you'd be missing it .
Speaker 3Dan , there's a chill in the air . Is there already a chill in the air ?
Speaker 2I'm kidding , yeah see , I like that Went from like 90 to 60, .
Speaker 3It was like crazy .
Speaker 2Yeah , you're getting that autumns moving in .
Speaker 3Yeah yeah , lopping up there soon enough .
Speaker 2Yeah , checking it out . So there's no chill down here in the old cells .
Speaker 3I wouldn't think so . Yeah , no , chill , not till what December now ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I had a suit on today . Yeah , for something I had to go to and brutal . Yeah , it's just instant and I had the full like tie and everything , and just instant sweat , like why did I even bother ? Yeah , you know it's gross , but yeah , well , that speaks to the fact that it is , of course , halloween fest . Halloween fest rolling on .
Speaker 2Rolling on . Yeah , that phrase is going to get tired over the next few weeks Probably already is . People wish we would retire it . But yeah , halloween fest here . The old brother podcast . I think I said old brother , the old , you know the old brother podcast . Alright , speak for yourself . Maybe that would have done better for the channel is the old brother , you know a couple of like minors from the whatever 1800s .
Speaker 2But yeah , in this episode we're going to talk about the black phone , which we sort of bull talked about this , but I feel like this was was this your idea Ultimately ? I can't remember .
Speaker 3I think I said to you let's do old phone , because old phone let's do old phone . You can ?
Speaker 2it's a whole gag , a whole bit going .
Speaker 3You got my brain twisted .
Speaker 2Let's do the old phone .
Speaker 3I said , let's do black phone because there's a bankable star , ethan Hawke , in it from training day and the before trilogy , and he's just an awesome actor . Denzel won best actor for training day . And I think he should have , you know , broke off a chunk and gave it to Ethan Hawke because he was really good .
Speaker 2But Denzel was magic in that film .
Speaker 3He was , and , and you know , I forget King . Kong up in that , you know right , he was up against somebody like Tom Hanks or something and he was really kind of the odd man out and I didn't think they would give it to him because it was such a violent , drug infested movie .
Speaker 2but it was such a great performance , you know well , let's talk about a lighter subject matter here .
Speaker 1Yeah , the old black phone .
Speaker 2Let's talk about the old black . That that would work because it is a black phone . Yeah , and we had an old black phone . You know I , you know we'll get into that , but rotary phones for the , for the kids out there for the youngsters .
Speaker 2What is a rotary phone ? Yeah Well , even some even the cast of this had never seen a device such as that before filming this movie . Oh really , yeah , we'll talk about that . But so black phone now is a list . If you look at up on IMDB , it says 2021 , but it came out in June . It was June 24 , 2022 . It was directed by Scott Derrickson . Now , scott Derrickson and Ethan Hawke had worked together before . Had you seen the film Sinister that had come out in 2012 ? No , it was another thriller , horror type film . So you're talking over 10 years ago . They had worked together and it's part , you know , part of what went into the decision for Ethan to choose to do the role , because he had worked with Scott before , but he was a lot younger at this point . So , yeah , he gets a little bit more under his belt , little bit more experience .
Speaker 3Yeah , that was his gattica days right Back then .
Speaker 2Would that have been 2012 ?
Speaker 3I think around there yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , Now , it's based on a short story written by Joe Hill . Now , do you know who Joe Hill is ? No , so if you look up his full name , Joseph Hillstrom King , that ring of bell at all the lineage . We're talking about Halloween Fest .
Speaker 3Right .
Speaker 2We just talked about the name King , so American writer born in Hermann , maine , getting warmer . He's the son of writer Sounds like he's a .
Speaker 3King a Stephen .
Speaker 2King , disciple , son of writer Stephen King and Tabitha . King , Okay yeah so there's a really good tie-in to Halloween Fest right there .
Speaker 3So , stephen , King's name is actually Kingston .
Speaker 2No , no , no , Joe Hill is actually Joseph Hillstrom King but he goes by Joe Hill , right , but I wonder if that has to do with any Probably leading away from the King name . Try to stand on your own .
Speaker 3Right , because even Stephen King tried to get out of his own name by writing books .
Speaker 2Well , also just in , yeah , in Hollywood , the thing with the names , it's a whole yeah . Yeah , that's a whole night , a rabbit hole we could get out . Now it's definitely a rated R film . Of course , we talked about Ethan Hawke , mason Tames , madeline McGraw and Jeremy Davies . That's kind of your main cast in this film . You want to set up what this film is about . I think I'll defer to you to talk about this stuff . Yeah .
Speaker 3Well , basically there's a guy in the neighborhood called the Grabber that's what they've nicknamed him in the news or whatever , why they call him the Grabber the Grabber and what he does is basically he's grabbing kids from the neighborhood or disappearing , and the police aren't really clever enough to figure it out , even though they're all from the same neighborhood .
Speaker 2And his house is dead center . Getting a whiff of Mike's take here of the film early on .
Speaker 3Yeah , mike's take , that's what we're going to call it Exactly . So , anyways , he grabs one of the neighborhood kids . He's left in a room with nothing but like a mattress in this old black phone , and he keeps getting calls from victims .
Speaker 2You had said on a previous episode of the show during Halloween Fest you're talking about what was the ? You said , yeah , if you really wanted to like , endear the audience to a character you know center their crimes around rape or in some way . Right and then child crimes right up there .
Speaker 2Right up there , at number two , right up there , it's a neck and neck folks . But yeah so , and I think that's part of it too , just knowing the setup for the film Right , it creates a sense of terror in and of itself , you know , without even seeing it yet , just reading about it , but yeah so he grabs this kid Right the main boy yeah .
Speaker 3Who's the one we see in the room with the phone ? Goes by Finney . Finney yeah he has a sister that has some kind of ESP hours , clairvoyance correct .
Speaker 2They don't really lay it out too clear and in her mother . Okay , so let's not get too down on the weeds . But right , so you're setting it up to say there's this guy in neighborhood who called the grabber , and he's you know .
Speaker 2Snatching kids and yeah , and killing these kids , yeah . So he gets a hold of Finney and you know he's got this Dungeon basically for a basement in his home and , as you said , that's where he dumps him . It's just nothing but a mattress and the old black phone on the wall right , and you mentioned that he is able to . As the movie moves on , he's able to communicate to the previous victims Through the phone and as the film goes along it , they start providing him with Clues right how to get out of right like you'll find a rope here .
Speaker 3You'll find a spot here where I tried to dig Right
Discussion of Film's Characters and Setting
Speaker 3.
Speaker 2It's a I thought it was well done , all of that , you know , but I just you got to be prepared to sort of , you know , give up a bit of reality here , because because , as you're also talking about his sister Mm-hmm , played by Madeline McGraw , who was just absolutely Spectacular in this film , just what a performance this this young actor gave in the same with Finney .
Speaker 3the same thing Young performances , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , and she had a little bit More street cred . You know , she , she voiced a character , I think Bonnie , in Toy Story 4 , and she's done some things on the Disney Channel . Wow , this was I think his first major film , I believe . But just really really good performances . And the dad played by Jeremy Davies who , you know his blue collar guy works the nuclear plant like a Homer Simpson type , you know , yeah , but he's also an alcoholic and he's abusive . You know , as I'm starting , I was starting to wonder , like not sure , like basement home with dad , like it was again a toss now I know they made him a pretty evil character and then we're supposed to forgive him at the end .
Speaker 2Right , right , yeah , no sympathetic character right now you you're talking about let's kind of get back to the point you're talking about with the sister who's got these , like you said , abilities . She has these dreams .
Speaker 3She keeps referring to them as mm-hmm and she sees what the future , the past well she can tell , like when they're hoping a kid comes back , she'll say , well , he's not coming back , almost like she knows he was killed and the police keep wanting to talk to her because she provides details and the father Does not like that at all .
Speaker 2He doesn't like it and apparently , as you learn , part of the reason why is because the mom is why he's who is deceased . She sounds like maybe heads . Well , it sounds like we were dealing with some mental illness in her case At least the way they set it up or perceived mental illness .
Speaker 2Right , because it sounded like maybe she would have similar dreams or see things , or whatever in the dad says you know , your mother had these things and it eventually told her to do things , awful things , and then right killed herself , right as a result of it .
Speaker 3So and that's a side story they really don't get into yeah , it wasn't quite clear .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know , but yes , so you know what I liked about it the setup of the film , because this is set in 1978 in Denver , which is where the director , scott Derrickson , is from , from what I gathered , and he , he does such a wonderful job of setting up . You know the first . What would you say ?
Speaker 220 , 30 minutes , maybe somewhere around there where Really painting this picture of and we both know this and I certainly know , being a kid in the 70s Mm-hmm , there were so many things that like Little League Baseball , you know yeah , any Finney had a mean fastball , shooting out rockets and riding BMS , bmx bikes and like all the things that were Really reminiscent of that time .
Speaker 2Yeah , derrickson did such a great job of setting that up . At least again , if you can relate to have having grown up as a young adult and that a young kid in that time , I thought it just , especially in Denver , like it felt like New England to me when we grew up , so it was very relatable . You know the way that he set it up and he I think it's this kind of innocence of youth right , and so it was very sort of light and you know , to really set up and drive home the terror Right that was about to befall the town .
Speaker 3It's like wrestling I know if you want to have a really good Bad guy or a good ? You got to have a real bad guy . The bad guys make the good guys even better . What is it ? Faces right . Yeah , faces , he's baby faces or Heals turning face , the crowd starts to like a bad guy . Yeah .
Speaker 2Hey , you made you made a comment about baseball , where you know , finn Finney is a pitcher and literally yeah , and he's , his arm is mint throwing smoke . Yeah , one of this , one of his , his opposing , bruce , bruce Yamada right , who ends up being one of the first kids that's taken that we know of .
Speaker 2Yeah , but that's one of the first images you see of the grabber . He's got this black van . You know , of course these characters always got some van with tinted windows . Probably not a good investment , didn't dad have one of those ? Actually not a kind of same thing of it . Now , there's a whole side story to get into .
Speaker 2Dad the grabber , the old black van that dad had , but there's a shot of Bruce riding his bike down the middle of the road . Yeah , which you could do some of the things you could do back then , which again I think is part of this right it was pretty easy to snatch a kid off the streets back in the 70s . We were running wild all over the place and all hours of the night . You know . After sunset .
Speaker 3Do you remember I don't know if you're old enough or young enough , whatever the case may be when they used to have the insect trucks ? Yes , with the smoke Right Like heavy , heavy smoke Around this time of year it used to truck .
Speaker 2it would drive by the name and just cover the neighborhood . We would be running , insect , repellent .
Speaker 3Yeah ,
Child Abduction and Movie Critique
Speaker 3we would be running in this smoke . A fog , yeah , a huge fog . You couldn't see your hand in front of your face .
Speaker 2No , and we turned out okay yeah .
Speaker 3The grabber were to have us easily . Exactly . Just wait for that just follow that truck .
Speaker 2Why didn't he just drive one of those trucks around ? He could have had a whole slew of kids , but there's a shot of Bruce riding his bike and it's very you know , it's a very kind of uplifting scene . High Bruce Right and he sees girls looking at the girls walking down the thing and whatever , and then all of a sudden , kind of in the distance , you see the black van turn the corner and turn out onto the street and then the scene just slowly fades to black Right and you know what ?
Speaker 3the rest of it was for , and next thing you know there's signs up . You know , Right Missing child Right .
Speaker 2just some great directing there to set it up . Yeah , and again that whole opening bit just setting up the incredible horror of child crimes .
Speaker 3quite frankly , and I agree , the first 40 minutes of this movie had me . I was like into it .
Speaker 2That was riveted . Yeah , we actually get our first glimpse of the grabber which he grabs Finney . Now , if you've read the short story which I read some of the short story and it's a very different character . It sounded like a very obese , real heavy set character , bald head .
Speaker 3Which was funny , because there's a scene with Ethan Hawks sitting in a chair with his stomach out you know , trying to act like he's heavy Still heavier than both of us .
Speaker 2Exactly , he still was in better shape . Yeah he was very . Yeah , it was interesting to know that that was Ethan . It was weird with the mask . This is one of the creepier ones that I've seen , and that's the poster for the film too . Is that mask and the top hat ? It's just , it's very creepy . So he encounters Finney walking down the street home from school and he drops a bag of groceries or something .
Speaker 2Right , oh , geez and just to try to lure you can tell he's luring Finney in , right , and ends up spraying . Well , he gets up and he's not having the mask right , but he's got like white face , if you notice . It's very weird , they did it and he tells him you know he's got balloons in the back of the car black balloons Right black balloons . Right and he says oh , I'm a part-time magician .
Speaker 3Right , you wanna see a trick , yeah .
Speaker 2Shaking up . What we find out was like you know , bug spray or something to knock him out and get him into the back of the van and he uses the balloons , try to , in case anybody's to try to cover it up .
Speaker 2And then he lets them go . Now , if you read the , that whole sequence in the short story is a little bit different . It's very well written by Joe Hill where , as I said , he paints a different description of the character . It's very , you know , overweight , heavy-set guy and whatever . Yeah , similar in that he's got two arms or groceries . There's a lot of similarities . But the description of things like Finney commenting on the balloons . The character of Finney in the short story loves grape soda and when Joe Hill describes the can that the grabber has , it's clearly a can of like wasp spray and he sprays it in the kid's eyes and his mouth . And so suddenly those descriptions like the . He sees the black balloons as he's being pushed into the back of the van and he's thinking of grapes and the grape soda .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2And his taste for grape soda has changed because of this metallic taste that he now has . It was very just , really well written .
Speaker 3See , that's what you can do in a book . Yeah , it's really nice .
Speaker 2Like all the .
Speaker 3Stephen King books . They're so much more descriptive . Right Than you can do in a movie .
Speaker 2So where it sounds like you got off the train here at some point with it , and where was that ?
Speaker 3What the biggest strength I thought was gonna be . Ethan Hawke was the biggest downfall , Because as soon as they introduce his brother , I saw the rest of the movie play out . Like nothing fooled me , not even the silence of the lambs . Deep fake fail I saw it coming .
Speaker 2Well , what was it that you thought they were trying to get you ? You know ?
Speaker 3Well , first off , we know as soon as we see Ethan Hawke that it's Ethan Hawke and he's the grabber . So the police gonna confuse his brother . For him , his brother is also like trying to figure out the whole thing and he's got it all mapped up on his wall , right , his house , like come on , right yeah .
Speaker 2His brother's name was Max . I felt like that character could have completely been written out of the film . Yes , I didn't get deep enough into the short story to
Discussion on Sinister Movie
Speaker 2see if it's in the short story , but that was one of the biggest problems I had . Is this brother character that you talk about and you know . Another thing is I wish that Ethan had never taken the mask off . I thought it lost a little something when you really completely knew that it was Ethan Hawke , Correct ? You know that first shot of him , as I described , where he's got like this clown makeup on , almost because the grabber in the short story says to the kid oh , I'm a part-time clown as opposed to a magician . But that was still very creepy and , like you kind of know , it's Ethan Hawke , but it was just very sort of different .
Speaker 3And then it comes off in phases . It's almost like the top piece comes off and you have just this set-at-fake teeth Right , and Derrickson talks about that .
Speaker 2The director says , and I think Ethan Hawke too , how you know , use that as a device to sort of emphasize where , like if he really needed to communicate . You know the bottom piece was off and if you know there was justification , I guess , behind the three different pieces . But when it was completely off , I know it lost a little something for me , you know I wasn't as freaked out and there was elements in it where you're like doesn't he hear that ?
Speaker 3Like because Finney's trying to escape .
Speaker 2Well , he's in a soundproofed room , Mike Right , he sets that up where he says go ahead and scream if you want . Nobody's gonna hear you because it's soundproof .
Speaker 3And they even show it . They even show him screaming with a shot from outside , where it's dead silent . That's right , you know .
Speaker 2He's really well done too . That's pretty terrifying , and you know his brother fast forward a little bit to the end spoiler alert but you find out that what they live in both houses , one right across from the other , like one was the grave for all the previous kids that he murdered , and the other one is just where he plays all the mind games .
Speaker 3I wasn't even gonna go that far as far as spoilers , but yeah , right , I mean there's two houses , right ?
Speaker 2but that's why you might be thinking , when you realize his brother's involved not involved , but his brother's in the story , like what he's not hearing or getting wind of this .
Speaker 3Right right . You know , like you said , it got a little bit Like when the door went open and he would yell or whatever , his brother's upstairs on the . So maybe he waited until the brother was at work . I don't know why did he keep Finney alive ? I don't .
Speaker 2That's not really explained .
Speaker 3It's another , because it seems like he killed all the other kids right away , but for some reason he's keeping this kid alive .
Speaker 2Right , and what was the whole thing where Ethan's character is saying Because he's like , you know , let me go , or something , while I'm thinking about letting you go , right , you know , in this whole back and forth , but then he says you know , he has to go upstairs for a while and it's something he's like . What is there someone here ? Is it the police ? Do they know ? Right , you know , and all of this back and forth , but what ? What was Ethan talking about ? As the grabber with it Got something's gotten complicated and I'll be back in a while . And what was going on upstairs , was he ?
Speaker 3trying to make dinner . I don't , we don't know , we don't know , and , and at one point again , another spoiler alert . Finney escapes , he literally gets out and he gets grabbed a second time so easily . I mean , and you know , you see the lights going on .
Speaker 2Well , he didn't oh .
Speaker 3I see the neighborhood . Oh , when he literally was out running away , literally outside and you and he's screaming and the lights go out , and then Ethan Hawke kind of holds them until the lights , you know , go back out and the van is sitting right there . Yeah , nobody's going to look out like they're going to turn the light out and see this van and not all the police . Little week it was a little week that was rough .
Speaker 2That was a little silly , yeah , because wasn't Ethan Hawke like shirtless at that point ? Yeah , he had the mask on , like nobody's catching this Right . Exactly I don't know if it was around Halloween , but that was a little . That was a stretch , for sure .
Speaker 3Yeah , but that's it . You know , it seemed like when the brother came in the picture , the whole thing fell apart .
Speaker 2It was so and he was in sinister . I think that same actor .
Speaker 1So they work .
Speaker 2You know this must be one of his go to people .
Speaker 3Probably .
Speaker 2Yeah , but he was way over the top with it . It was like the sling blade type character .
Speaker 3Correct .
Speaker 2He's coked out of his mind , which was maybe another , you know , explaining away why he was so clueless . I don't know .
Speaker 3Well , I don't think the way he portrayed him .
Speaker 2He killed 17 kids before he decided to go look down the basement . That's what they made it seem like .
Speaker 3Yes , so yes , and then he , I am going to go down there , right you ? Can't stop me . Yeah , let me check out what's going on . And then he sees Fanny .
Speaker 2I'm your older brother , grab her , and I was looked over .
Speaker 3Frey , I mean he was like a fraydo he was a fraydo character . He didn't need to have him snort and cocaine because he was a dimwit . You know , he was a total dimwit .
Speaker 2Meanwhile , you know the sister is , you know she's literally gluing it together in her dreams .
Speaker 3Right , she's on his trail .
Speaker 2Yeah , I let that go just because I thought her performance was so intense , because there's a scene where she's getting beaten with a belt by the father , yeah , yeah , Because he finds out she's been talking about the dream stuff at school or whatever she got To the police .
Speaker 2Well , to the police , yeah , because well , they came to the school to talk to her Right , and that was an intense scene where he's really kind of , you know , grilling her and saying you know enough with these dreams and you know your dreams are just dreams . She's crying . It was a really good performance by the show actors , yeah .
Speaker 2It was like really impressed by it . But yeah , it started to go off the rails a little bit . You know , it felt like a this would this would be something I could see on the stage as a three act play . It was very much kind of filmed and performed almost like a play . Right , you got really one set , if you think about it .
Speaker 3Yeah , almost like I would say Agatha Christie . But you know , you have all the people on stage to begin with , and then they start dropping .
Speaker 2Right , right , right and when they would go back . You know we're talking about Gwen's Dreams . Derrickson uses kind of super eight film you know is very kind of the old home movies like that we grew up with . It had that just to kind of offset like her dream state versus you know what was the current day or time or what have you . It was filmed in North Carolina , it's . I mean , the budget was only 18 million . It's done . I think . 100 million over 100 million , it's done well .
Speaker 3I mean we don't really get closure on what happens to him no , no they really the police show up at the door right which we don't know . It Wink , wink , it's the wrong door and they're about to charge in . And they charge in wrong house or wrong to the wrong house Right .
Speaker 2Which , well , the right wrong house right , because they're again . They apparently they must have done pretty well for themselves . They got one house on one side of the street , another house pretty decent ranchers , you know pretty nice houses .
Speaker 3He's not really working because he's , he's sitting there all day . He's a part time magician , part time clown .
Speaker 2Yeah , so he's making up . Yeah , he's getting pulling , yeah .
Speaker 3Side hustle . Yeah , these balloons don't grab his kids .
Speaker 2These balloons don't pay for themselves . You know it was really this distance where goofing on it a little bit was there's , you know , early in the film . You know typical coming of age film where Finney's character is . You know he's probably liked to be a little bit more popular with the female . You know characters in the film and once he well , he gets his ass kicked a few times in the film . But there's a scene early in the film you talk about this character , rob , and it was like the bad ass kid at school . But he was like the size of a , like he was just this young , little , very diminutive kid . We're introduced to him where he's squaring off with this much larger kid A bully , yeah . And he ends up just wiping the floor .
Speaker 3Right this kid .
Speaker 2Now I witnessed almost the exact same fight at school . This was very this . This was very big .
Speaker 3The one that told mom on me .
Speaker 2No , no , no , this wasn't you . It was a kid in the neighborhood that I went to school with back then . I don't know about now , I don't want to know about now , but back then it was very common . You know that one of my favorite movies three o'clock high , which is all about being threatened by the bully , at three o'clock I'm each in the parking lot , correct ? That used to happen every day . Oh yeah , that was the big kid school was always being threatened to get beat up in the park .
Speaker 3Correct , right Correct .
Speaker 2Sometimes it was me .
Speaker 3I had a couple of those .
Speaker 2Yeah , sometimes you're the perpetrator , sometimes you're the you know on the other side of it . But you can see that the girls of school seemed to take to that more than you know , finney , when he gets his ass
Discussion About a Suspenseful Film
Speaker 2handed to him . But at the end of the film , one of the last scenes in the film , I think it's him sitting down in class next to one of those girls from early in the film . And now , all of a sudden , she's , you know , hey , finney , you know .
Speaker 2I'm like okay so it turns out , murder gets the women . I mean , is that the lesson here ? It was very odd so you're the victim of the grabber . Huh Well , spoiler alert . Spoiler alert he kills the grabber .
Speaker 3See , now , you just spoiled it for me because I forgot that . What ? How did I forget that ? I don't know when did you watch the film Back in the 78s . No , last week , when we decided . Yeah , he kills .
Speaker 2Ethan Hawke .
Speaker 3Oh , I forgot that Because remember , I just said I said they really didn't clean it up , because I remember the cops going in and and then it was kind of that was a result of really him trying to get away .
Speaker 2That first time that you described , right brings it back in and now it's like . Now it's on because he's passed , and you know and the grabber never heard like his basement being demolished throughout the film . He tried to get through the wall at one point . Yeah , there on the floor up .
Speaker 3I mean I guess the soundproofing was the yeah , but still , it was soundproofing to the outside , not necessarily to him , and he always would turn a light on and cough before he came in the room . You know like , so Finney could get back into the bed , right ?
Speaker 2He's a friendly neighborhood grab .
Speaker 3Yeah , you know he's , he's . He protects the privacy of his victims .
Speaker 2But yeah , that was the whole , like he was teaching them how to punch the right step back , then step forward real quick , then swing right , and so that's how we ended up actually getting .
Speaker 3I don't know why I forgot that , but but I wrote it down .
Speaker 2I'm like turns out , murder gets the girls . It was just like a weird thing .
Speaker 3you know that the whole ending , like I said , they definitely were stealing silence of the lambs for the ending , you know when , when the cops break in and they think they're going to rescue the girl and she's really ill . Yeah , so , but the first , like I said , the first 40 minutes really engaging , and then it just falls apart , so bad . Yeah , I couldn't really enjoy it at that point .
Speaker 2I think I would have . It might have been a better film throughout if they didn't use all the different devices you know with the ghost because you had to . You had to suspend so much disbelief Right .
Speaker 2You know , there was some cleverness to it , like he'd be talking to , like a kid , would call him on the phone and the kid would be next to him , would be there , right , and I thought that was kind of clever it was , and actually Mason Tames , who plays Finney , talked about how on set because that was just a set that they built Right the actors those actors that were playing the other kids were on the other side of the wall so he could actually hear them on the phone , which he said really helped with his performance .
Speaker 3Yeah , sure .
Speaker 2You know . But yeah , that was what another thing that made me feel like this I'm like I'm watching a play , right ?
Speaker 3now yeah , yeah . The way that it was filmed and right because that's what they would do in the play . That's right . I been in plays where you know they dropped the curtain , raised the curtain , dropped the curtain and that's to show it's a new day . You know stuff . They use devices like that in theater all the time .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's not a long film . It's about an hour and 43 minutes .
Speaker 3So I mean it's a pretty easy watch and for me once the brother came in and I basically saw the ending I mean , there was a good half hour left and I could see it from a mile away Like it almost ruined the stuff that I liked . You know what I mean . It's like at the end of it , I'm like you know what . There was a lot of good stuff , but the bad stuff kind of overtook it .
Speaker 2Yeah , one thing I found interesting I was watching some of the behind the scenes , just some interviews with Ethan Hawke and some of the cast and one of the things he talked about , you know , because not an easy decision to choose to take on a character like this when you're such an established actor . And now you're gonna play a masked guy that you know kills , murders kids .
Speaker 2It's like let me think about my portfolio for a second before I make that decision . Cause he said interestingly , he said you know it , really , when you play a character like that it can change , at least in his mind . It can change the audience's perception of you . Going forward right and he referenced specifically Jack Nicholson and the Shining and he said there's Jack Nicholson and then there's Jack Nicholson post the Shining . It's almost like you can't separate the two . Cause that left such an indelible rage and you know , burning your brain that character , jack .
Speaker 2Ultimately , the story was , you know , well written , and he'd worked with Derrickson before , as I said , and so you know , I think you're right , though I think if you cut that character , you don't really need them , do you Max ? The police brother yeah you don't really need them . You don't cause . You've got his sister , is the one solved by crime , basically .
Speaker 3And then the police are tracking it , so why even use him ?
Speaker 2And if they did it he was too silly . It was too silly a character , Like if it had just been portrayed differently maybe , but I think they could have done without it altogether .
Speaker 1I think so too . It would have been fine .
Speaker 2I think it would have been a better movie . So where do you land with this ? You recommend , you don't recommend . Do you own this film ? No , you can get it free .
Speaker 3right now it's on Prime . Yeah , that's where I watched it . I didn't see the extras .
Speaker 2Where did you get those .
Speaker 1On Prime Just on the internet ?
Speaker 2Oh , okay , just on YouTube , yeah .
Speaker 3You know , for horror people they suspend a lot of disbelief . So I think you you know case in point , right , I think if you like that sort of thing , you can engage in the first half very easily . Yeah , I think those people will walk away kind of liking it , yeah , and I think other people like me . You know I'm gonna be picky of everything and , like I said , the back half of the movie ruined the front half . For me it was like I gave you all that credit .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3And now I'm taking it back Now 65 meta score .
Speaker 2what's your take on that ?
Speaker 1That's high you find that high , very high , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And . I would come in lower than that . Critics 82% .
Speaker 3Wow .
Speaker 2Audience 88% Wow .
Speaker 1And .
Speaker 2I think it speaks to the strength of , as you keep pointing out , that first 30 , 40 minutes .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2I hate . I'm sorry , but it's when Max comes in . It just kind of it loses the rails .
Speaker 3And again there was some clever techniques used and it's hard to take away that from the movie .
Speaker 2Did you recognize Jeremy Davies , who plays the ? He plays the dad . Did you recognize him ? You ?
Speaker 3know , I thought I did , but I'm not sure .
Speaker 2from what I knew I kind of did , but he had such a big , thick beard Right and long hair Long hair , but he was a character in Lost , a very well-known character in the TV series Lost . He was also in Saving Private Ryan , which I didn't remember . He played an interpreter for Tom Hanks' character , again , between him and the kids and this abusive alcoholic father that they were dealing with . So it was like I said before . I don't know if I'd rather stay home or head to that basement and hang out with the grabber . At least you get in three meals a day , you know you get some food . You got the old black phone you can play with .
Speaker 3You could talk to your friends Long deceased .
Speaker 2Yeah , there's something to be said about the grabber's dungeon , I mean you know , Well , anything else to say about the black phone ? No .
Speaker 3I think
Grabber's Dungeon and the Black Phone Discussion
Speaker 3we both hit too many notes of it probably , but yeah , I think at this point , people who are into the genre , have seen it , oh right .
Speaker 2Yeah , you're talking about spoiler alerts . Well , we've got our production assistants that'll take care of that . So just putting a lot of good spoiler alerts ahead of time or drop chunks of it out . Release this as a series . Yeah , it's a four part series , yeah , right . Well , that's going to do it for another episode of the the Old Brother podcast .
Speaker 1The Old Brother .
Speaker 2I've been your host , dan Smith , lois Amy is always my brother from the same mother , mike Smith , and we will see you next time .
Speaker 3Now I'm chilly here in New England for everyone .
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